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Thread: New Intelliflo Pump

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    Dave826's Avatar
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    New Intelliflo Pump

    I just had an Intelliflo VF installed in our vacation home, which we also rent. I am using it with ScreenLogic and love having the ability to control it from NY. The pool is about 12K gallons and we set it up to run 12 hours a day, 8AM to 8PM. From what I can see in ScreenLogic that is translating to a flow of about 16 gpm, 1625 rpm and a power usage of 325 watts, give or take, to turn over the water in 12 hours. This is all new to me and I am curious if the settings are logical. It certainly looks like I will be saving a bunch of power costs versus the old single speed pump. We heat the pool for guests and that is why I have chosen to run it during the day, it is hooked up to solar and a heat pump. It also uses an IC40 SWG if that is of any relevance.

    Thanks for any help!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    That is a fairly good setting. I believe that if you run the pump longer at 1000 RPM the total electrical usage will go down some more, but probably not a whole lot more. Also, at the lowest possible speeds, which save the most money, the skimmer doesn't always work perfectly. That is easy to fix if you are on-site, but you might want to avoid that risk for no until you can check out how the skimmer works at the lower speed in person.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    The intelliflo is a great pump - we have saved a lot in only a few months. We get the same result with our 50kl pool at 500W as we did with our old pump at 2400W. The only thing to note about the intelliflo pump (that they dont really tell you in the manual) is to keep them away from the rain! They are electronic, and if the cooling system (which is the weakest point on the intelliflo's) is open to the weather, the fan sucks in the weather and water ingress occurs almost instantly.

    Look after it, and it will save you a heap!

    Steve
    Mark Stinson
    Woodland, CA
    IG 12,545g Gunite/Plaster with attached spa, Hayward Northstar 3HP pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420
    Alas, I have no heater for my spa (yet)! :-(

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    That is great if you're running at 325 watts at low speed. Obviously, it won't run the pool cleaner very well or skim the surface but you can crank up the speed when you want to at anytime. You should see a savings of $20-$35 per month just on your pool pump alone. They are great pumps if they're programmed and maintained properly.

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    One thing that caught my eye. You stated 16 GPM @ 1625 RPM and 325 watts. That won't satisfy any flow switches, is very restricted, and way low on wattage consumed at that speed. I suspect you made a typo in there.


    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    I don't think that combination of GPM RPM and Watts is even possible with the Intelliflo.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Dave826's Avatar
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Here is a screen shot of the current settings from ScreenLogic, I was fairly close on the stats. Can you explain why the Watts and RPM don't make sense?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg VF.jpg (137.9 KB, 206 views)

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    In your picture under flow rate settings, it says Spa and set to 90 GPM. Can you explain what I am seeing? Did you set the pump for 16 GPM, 90 GPM or some other value?

    Here is the problem with your numbers. You have a RPM value which is around half speed for the pump. The GPM level should be much much higher than 16 GPM. On normal plumbing, the flow rate at 1740 RPM should be about 50 GPM not 16 GPM. At full speed, close to 100 GPM. In order for the flow rate to be that low, you would have to have a huge amount of head loss. What is your filter pressure at that setting?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    The settings for spa and solar gpm only run when the spa and/or solar is running. If I turned on the spa it would kick up to 90 gpm, what you are seeing the bottom are the settings when just the pump is running for the filter. You don't actually set GPM for the pool filter. You indicate how long you want the pump to run (in my case 12 hours), the number of gallons in the pool and the number of turns. The pump then does what it needs to do to make it happen (at least in so far as I understand it). So in my case, with a 12K pool and 12 hour run time you need to turn 12K/12 per hour or 1,000 g/hr which translates to roughly 16 gpm. That correlates to what is being reported, I am just not sure if it is the best way to do it.

    I don't know the filter pressure. The indicator on the screen shot seems to be indicating no pressure, which doesn't make any sense. It was initially running very high and we pulled it out and cleaned it and now it shows 0%. I haven't figured out why.

    Thanks for your help here, I appreciate it.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    For a setting of 16 GPM, I would expect the speed to be around 600 RPM and the input power around 90 watts and filter pressure close to 0 PSI. I think the remote display may not be working properly for some reason. Unfortunately, the only way to verify that is with a direct reading from the pump display. Perhaps someone at the house could do that?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    If you are running at 16 GPM, see this chart for why the filter pressure is nearly nil:

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-s ... _1147.html

    Going by the 2009's Pentair Product Guide pump curve sample rates, at 300 watts, you are pushing between 20 and 60 GPM, depending on a dynamic head loss of 10 to 20 feet.

    I have to believe the rpm counter is wrong. I also suspect the filter may need to be back washed.

    What does it say if you remotely put it in spa mode, wrt the filter pressure, rpm, and watts?

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Just as a couple points of reference in my own pool, if I set 15 GPM for non-solar going out at 2" pipe that splits into 3 1.5" pipes near the pool for returns, then I get the following:

    15 GPM with 1175 RPM and 155 Watts

    However, if I have the pump output go to the single 1.5" line for The Pool Cleaner with it attached, then I get the following:

    15 GPM with 2180 RPM and 540 Watts

    If I disconnect The Pool Cleaner from the dedicated line, then I get the following:

    15 GPM with 1370 RPM and 200 Watts

    So, 16 GPM with 1625 RPM and 325 Watts does not seem unheard of, though it would mean quite a lot of system head somewhere between a single 1.5" line and one with The Pool Cleaner attached.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Something is messing with my thinking. Looking at the pump curves for Intelliflos, that would imply almost 40' of head at that speed/flow combination running the Pool Cleaner and between 15-20 feet without it through the 1.5" line and maybe 10 feet of dynamic head feeding the regular returns on mas985's system.

    16 GPM through a 1.5" pipe is a whopping 2-1/2 Feet per second. With 2" pipe, it's a little under a 1-1/2 FPS. These speeds won't induce a lot of friction loss.

    So removing the pool cleaner reduces the load substantially. Not an unexpected event.

    Where is the rest of the load coming from on the OP's system?

    How far is the pump from the pool?

    What are the readings at 90 gpm?

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    OK, so here is a shot with the spa running. It looks like something is up to me as well. It will run faster but I don't think the rpm should be full out. Now I am getting more confused.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Just as a couple points of reference in my own pool, if I set 15 GPM for non-solar going out at 2" pipe that splits into 3 1.5" pipes near the pool for returns, then I get the following:

    15 GPM with 1175 RPM and 155 Watts
    Similar here: With two 1.5" suction to 2" at pad, to Intelliflo VF, to Pentair Quad via 2" to one 2" at pad reduced to one 1.5" going to four returns, with one completely shut off, two regular eyeball open, one Pool Skim with enough venturi to pull in some stuff......... 148 watts, 1130 rpm, 17 GPM clean filter 1.5 psi. And 316 watts, 1555 rpm, 34 GPM, clean filter 5 psi with Pool Skim venturi pulling in virtually all stuff. when we moved the filter we added about 8' of pipe to suction and pressure side at pad.

    This is with separate 1.5" to pressure cleaner return closed and no suction cleaner hooked up.

    When I open the pressure cleaner return and/or run the Polaris there is enough flow to keep booster pump and Intelliflo VF happy. I didn't write down the figures but will do so in a day or so after I backwash.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Dave,

    Try setting the spa flow rate so the RPM level is just below 3450. The problem may be that the pump needs to run at a higher RPM but can't so it still shows 90 GPM even though it may not be producing that. So set the spa to 85 GPM and see if the RPM drops. If not, keep going down until it does.

    Another thing to try is to set the spa at 16 GPM and see if you get nearly the same RPM setting as the pool. The spa should have more head loss so the RPM setting should be higher than the pool.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave826
    I don't know the filter pressure. The indicator on the screen shot seems to be indicating no pressure, which doesn't make any sense. It was initially running very high and we pulled it out and cleaned it and now it shows 0%. I haven't figured out why.

    Thanks for your help here, I appreciate it.
    On my Intelliflo VF, reading the panel on the pump, when checking filter settings, the percentage relates to how much stuff the filter has collected, not the filter pressure. When it gets up into the higher percentages and up to a certain point it will give you an alert that indicates that the filter needs attention, which usually means the filter needs cleaning. A 0% is clean or near clean filter. This is somewhat based on what you set the clean filter psi to. When I "play" with my filter in order to keep it in auto mode if I want to do fine adjustments I play around with the pool volume, turnovers, time to run. The higher the rpm and flow rate the faster % reading will climb. Mine is on 87% right now, giving me an alert to see to the filter, and psi has only risen 6 on filter. It is awfully sensitive. The other time I've gotten the alert was when the pump basket was about half full of leaves and worms but filter pressure hadn't changed much at all. When I cleaned the pump basket it stopped alerting and returned to normal operation. In that case the pump actually reduced the rpm. This time the flow to returns is about the same as pre alert. My "Favorite Most Trusted Pool Guy" told me to let the smart pump (edit .. I had filter here) do its job. So I am going to trust it over my observation of the filter psi change on gauge on filter.

    I am using cellulose and I do think it is filtering finer particles than DE would. I noticed this with the old filter too. We have an extraordinary amount of very fine particles that really can clog up filters and fabrics really fast (like the fine bags on Aquabot). As my new pump running at a pretty slow speed (vs the old one speed 2.23 SFSP) and new filter over twice the size of my old 36 sq ft are filtering much better (slower flow rate and less pressure inside filter), and capturing much more fine stuff, I'm not at all surprised that the pump is alerting me to backwash. If I had the rpm up higher I would notice a higher psi. Past four backwashes have been normal backwash(but using far less water than with old filter) but this time I'm going to take off the top and rinse the cartridges (Quad DE has four cartridges instead of grids) instead of backwash which is one of the great features of the Quad filter. Saves much water (and chemicals) and you don't have to remove the cartridges.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave826
    I just had an Intelliflo VF installed in our vacation home, which we also rent. I am using it with ScreenLogic and love having the ability to control it from NY. The pool is about 12K gallons and we set it up to run 12 hours a day, 8AM to 8PM. From what I can see in ScreenLogic that is translating to a flow of about 16 gpm, 1625 rpm and a power usage of 325 watts, give or take, to turn over the water in 12 hours. This is all new to me and I am curious if the settings are logical. It certainly looks like I will be saving a bunch of power costs versus the old single speed pump. We heat the pool for guests and that is why I have chosen to run it during the day, it is hooked up to solar and a heat pump. It also uses an IC40 SWG if that is of any relevance.

    Thanks for any help!
    According to what I and another poster have posted this goes right along with our direct observations of our pumps. Your plumbing is similar to mine. What kind and size of filter do you have. As far as what you are seeing it certainly looks "normal" for filtering setting.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    I'm sorry, but I really don't see how 1625 RPM @ 16 GPM can be considered normal. Let's put things in perspective using the CEC measurements.

    Curve-A 1000 RPM, 22 GPM, 130 Watts, equivalent to 1.5" plumbing 315' equivalent length
    Curve-B 1000 RPM, 13 GPM, 120 Watts, equivalent to 1.5" plumbing 950' equivalent length

    Scaling to 1625 RPM

    Curve-A 1625 RPM, 36 GPM
    Curve-B 1625 RPM, 21 GPM

    So Dave's plumbing is worse than Curve-B or more than 950' of 1.5" plumbing?

    I just don't see how that is possible unless he has a really bad plumbing design.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Intelliflo Pump

    OK, so once again thanks for all the input, this is really helpful. I dialed back the spa as requested by mas985 an ran it at the same 16 gpm. The RPM and watts were virtually unchanged. I seem to be having a problem with the spa setting in general though as I play with it. As I mentioned the 90 gpm sends the RPM to the max of 3450 and then after a few minutes it shuts down with a message that the system is blocked. I tried dialing back to get different readings as also suggested by mas983 but didn't see much let up all the way down to 60 gpm in the RPM's which were still at 3450. I decided to go in the other direction and dial it up from the bottom and have included a couple of screen shots from those readings. Once I got up to 50 the RPMs got over 3,000 and I got the system blocked message. I am not sure if any of this helps, but something definitely appears to be wrong. I don't know the filter size, I meant to take pictures of the whole setup before I left and forgot to do it.
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