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Thread: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

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    New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    Hi - been lurking here for awhile. Thanks in advance for your help.

    As the subject says, I'm a first-time pool owner who just finished a complete pool renovation after we bought our new-to-us home (reno included new plumbing, white plaster, tile, skimmers, decking, and equipment -- SWG, DE filter, pump, polaris). Pool is approx 30K gals.

    On recommendation of PB, we filled most of the pool from a very clear creek that runs behind our property (city water here is VERY expensive). PB added a couple of gals of sequestering agent during fill, but was distracted with other jobs, so he really didn't pay much attention to the fill process. After about 1 week -- no surprise to me now that I've reviewed some past posts on this site -- dark blue to purple stains appeared after he shocked the pool (mainly on steps, corners and portions of deep-end walls). Since then, he added 4-5 more gals of sequestering agent (unfamilar brand that I can't now recall) and backwashed a number of times. Pool is now crystal clear, but no change in stains over the last 3 weeks or so.

    PB claims stains will eventually disappear and acts disinterested, unresponsive. On the positive side, I withheld final payment, so all isn't completely lost. Now I'm trying to address this myself. Took sample to Leslies and they tested for metals -- found no cooper or iron (said they couldn't test for manganese?). Other results were:

    FC = .5
    TC = .5
    pH = 8.0
    TA = 120
    Calcium Hardness = 260
    CYA = 20
    Phosphates = 200
    Salt = 2900

    Since added a gal of muratic acid.

    Tried the Vit C tablet test on steps. No immediate reaction, but after letting 3 tablets sit and dissolve for about 30 mins, stain turned darker (brown-blackish), then lightened. The 3" sample test spot is now less blue/purple for sure, but it is also much more rough in texture with very small, black pepper-like specks?

    So, here's the question. I ordered 5 lbs of ascorbic acid, now en route, and plan to follow the posted instructions on doing the ascorbic acid treatment to address stains. But before I potentially screw things up further, I want you guys to weigh in. Specifically, given my situation, would you:

    1) suggest any changes to the ascorbic acid steps/processed detailed on this site?
    2) should I be concerned about the rough surface that resulted from my Vit C tablet test? Should I expect that for the entire pool after the process (if so, I might need to reconsider).

    Really appreciate any and all thoughts!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    Since this is new plaster, I would do nothing that may void any warranty the PB has - he should be addressing these stains. Hold off on doing the AA treatment, I'm not convinced it will help and it may make things worse. If the Vit C would work, the reaction would be faster than what you experienced.

    Jack's Magic has a stain detection kit - you could order that.
    What kind/brand of sequesterant was used?

    Did you try a trichlor tablet on the spot, to rule out organic staining?

    Lower your PH to 7.2....asap using Muratic Acid - do you know how to use the Pool Calculator?

    Put some dry acid/"PH down" in a sock (like an old tube sock, tie a knot at the top) and using something to weigh the sock down onto the stain, see if that does anything to the staining. Post back with the results.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    From the description and the colors you are describing, it's copper, almost guarantee you.
    AA has a difficult time with copper. It will reduce it (thats a chemical reduction, not a reduction asin decrease, although both uses apply), just not very efficiently. My advice is what FPM said, let the builder address it at this point.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    You guys are quick!

    Yep, I added a gal of muratic acid to the address the high pH -- visual results from my little starter test kit show it is closer/if not at target.

    Racking my brain to remember the sequesterant he used (definitely not Jack's Magic or one of the brands I saw at Leslies).

    If it is cooper, why would the metal results from Leslie show no cooper -- would it have been filtered out with the sequesterant and backwashing?

    I know the PB should deal with this, but I'm so frustrated that he hasn't dealt with it so far and is now unresponsive. I thinking my back up plan is to force him to replaster for the balance of the payment, but with the cost of city water, I'll be out another $500 or so.

    (thanks for the calculator link -- first time I've seen that)

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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    The only way metals show up on a metals test is if they are suspended in the water. Once the metal deposit on the surface, they wont show up on the test. Same for sequestered metals.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    is the rougher plaster in the location of the vit c test typical?

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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    Somebody else will have to answer, I have vinyl.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: New pool, first timer -- metal stains after fill (bad PB)

    Quote Originally Posted by bwatl
    is the rougher plaster in the location of the vit c test typical?
    Yes, and no. Typically, the plaster is rougher with the stain removed than it was with the stain in place. But it isn't normally any rougher than some other area where there never was a stain.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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