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Thread: Order of balancing?

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    Order of balancing?

    I am starting the BBB method today. Got a 28K in ground pool with colored plaster and pebble surface. How long after adding bleach can i add MA as it is near 8.0 right now. Also, how long should i wait to test the FC and CC levels if I add the chlorine at 4:30pm. My pool usually turns off at 9pm. I am trying to stabilize the pool to add Borates next week. Thanks.

    Mo
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    About half an hour to an hour with the pump running is enough for everything to mix after adding liquid chemicals.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    I am trying to stabilize the pool
    How does the water look? If you are shocking to try and clear things up, you should be filtering 24/7...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    After checking the cya chart, i need to bring FC to between 14 and 16. So I just added 5- 128oz bottles of good ole' walmart great value bleach. My ph is 8.0 and TA is right at 85. I am going to brush the pool now. Can I add some MA to start bringing it down to the correct level? I get into a back and forth with the ph and TA though. Any suggestions?

    After I brush, I should let the filter run through tomorrow?

    Thanks.

    Mo
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Also, when should I test the FC and CC since I just added the bleach?
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Hi Mo

    The problem with high FC is it make the PH read a false-high (anything above a FC of 10). So you shouldn't try to adjust PH when the FC is up. Is the PH 8.0 after adding the 5 jugs of bleach? If so, it will drop back down when the FC drops down. TA is good where it's at.

    Are you trying to shock? Is that the 14-16 you are referring to? If you tell me your CYA level, I can advise you better.

    You can test FC and CC 30-60 minutes after adding bleach.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Thanks for the help!

    I am shocking. I believe my cya was between 30 and 40 so I added enough bleach to reach FC of 15. I did it almost 2 hours ago. I am going to test the FC right now. I don't have enough bleach to reapply. I hope my levels don't drop too far. When should I test again for CC? My ph was 8.0 before adding the bleach. So about 1.5 hours after adding the bleach, I added some MA to lower ph. I will add some more MA in an hour or so. I don't think bleach affects ph? According to your charts, I will try to keep ph between 7.4 and 7.8 and TA between 70-90? Is this right? If so, I will ensure all is stable before beginning the borates addition next week.

    Away with the pucks and turboshock!
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    If your pool has water features, or an swg, then yes, a TA of 70-90 is ideal. But if you don't have those things, 140 won't hurt anything

    How much acid did you add? We can guestimate what affect your acid addition should have on the PH level overall.

    Bleach does cause a temporary rise in pH but it drops back down as the FC levels drop.

    If you haven't done so already, read "How to Shock your Pool" and "How to Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test" articles in pool school, so that you can shock the pool properly and know when you are "done". This will answer your questions about testing FC and CCs.

    Glad to help!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    I have a hot tub that overflows into the pool and also 2 scuppers. So as you suggested, I will maintain a 70-90 range of TA. I added 72oz of MA 1.5 hours after adding all the bleach. It was 8.0 before adding the bleach. I just didn't want it to get outta control. I just tested and got a FC of 14.5 and a CC of 0. So I guess I am ok????? My CYA was around 30 and the FC was at 0 originally. That is why I added the 5-182oz bottles of bleach. Is this right? I need to update my signature, but my pool is a shade over 28k gallons.

    Also, why do some MA bottles have a yellowish liquid color and the new ones I got today are clear? Is it the heat?

    Thanks.

    Mo
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    There are varying strengths of MA, from 14-34%. The weaker stuff maybe the clear you bought today. Can you see a % strength on the label? What was the % of what you added before (if you still have the jugs).

    Depending on the strength, you could have added too much or too little...

    Based on your specs, yes those PH/TA levels would be ideal. The key to lowering TA is targeting the PH with the MA... the acid also lowers the TA. By aerating, you raise the PH back up without affecting the TA level. Eventually the TA drops into range.

    The pool calculator has a drop down menu, for selecting the correct % of acid strength, so you can calculate better.

    As for the FC/CC, if you are ok???? - you have to do an Overnight FC Loss Test to see if the FC holds overnight. Instructions on "how to" are in Pool School.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Should I keep my tab chlorinator at 5 with no tabs? Also, since I shocked the pool at 5pm and will turn off the pool at 9pm, can i do the overnight test first thing? Or should I have waited to shock after sundown? I did the FC and CC test 2 hours after and got 14.5 and 0.
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    When shocking, leave the filter running 24/7 until the FC holds overnight.

    You can shut the chlorinator off if it's empty. This shouldn't block the flow of water.

    Go out and test the FC and CC again. write down the result. In the morning, before the sun hits the pool, test again, and compare the results. IF you lose more than 1ppm, or your CCs are higher than .5....you aren't done shocking.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Both brands of MA were 20Baume. Not sure why one was yellowish in color and the other was white? Does heat exposure have an affect on the color or potency?

    Mo
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Normal levels of heat (33 to 140+ degrees) have no significant effect on muriatic acid. Are you sure it wasn't the plastic bottle that was yellow?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Thanks. Both jugs of MA are white and the same potency. Weird. Anyways, thanks for your help on this!

    How often do I need to shock with the bleach? My builder says to shock every 10-14 days in the summer, 2-3 weeks in spring and fall, and 4-6 weeks in winter? Is this correct?

    Also, regarding the CYA test, I have to make sure I can't see the black dot at all????

    Going to start the Borax treatment in a week or so.

    Thanks.

    Mo
    28K River Sand Plaster Finish - 2.5 HP Stealth Pump - Jandy 60 Sq Ft DE Filter - LAARS LT400 Natural Heater - Polaris 280 - Jandy PDA PS6 Computer Center

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    You don't need to shock the pool unless something goes wrong. Most builders assume you will do things wrong and will therefore need to shock, but if you take care of your pool properly you shouldn't need to shock very often at all.

    You should only need to shock the pool if the FC level goes to zero, if the water becomes murky, if the CC level is above 0.5, is you see algae, or if there has been some other obvious organic contamination of the water.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by modog
    How often do I need to shock with the bleach? My builder says to shock every 10-14 days in the summer, 2-3 weeks in spring and fall, and 4-6 weeks in winter? Is this correct?

    um, no, we don't agree with the builder. You will find all your info in Pool School; however, when you maintain your FC based on your CYA level, there should be no reason to shock your pool. See the CYA/Chlorine chart in my sig and in Pool School.

    Also, regarding the CYA test, I have to make sure I can't see the black dot at all????


    Here's a visual on the CYA test - got pics near the bottom:
    http://www.taylortechnologies.com/Chemi ... ntentID=44

    Mo
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    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Order of balancing?

    Our pool has never been shocked. If you do some reading here you'll see that it's not the only one. You only shock when you need to shock and you only know that by proper testing with a good test kit.

    On the CYA test, you're correct, pour the mixture into the view tube till the black dot completely dissapears.

    I suggest reading Pool School again. Some things take a few readings to fully grasp the content.

    Also, can you post a full set of numbers for us? There are some numbers strewn thoughout the posts but if we could see them all in one post it would be better.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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