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Thread: Infinity overflow return

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    Infinity overflow return

    Hi guys
    I think you have an excellent site here and I have been plowing through it for months checking out all the helpful input.
    I am going to be embarking on a small pool project very soon, and because of surrounding restrictions will be making an above ground pool with one vanishing edge. It's a very small pool and whilst being a builder and having no issues with concrete/structure etc, I do have a query about the return water from overflow tank. I read that this water has to be filtered and circulated via it's own pump, independant from the main circulation system. Does this mean a full filtration via a sand tank? or just filtered via the pump's debris catchment basket?
    This is I am sure one of a few enquires I'll be making so I would like to thank any who may answer in advance.
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Guest

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Yes, it needs its own pump and filter, although a relatively small cartridge filter will work just fine. Suction in the trough and returns via the pool. Watch the size of your trough; if this is as small as it sounds (to me!) you may need a surge tank!

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Infinity overflow return

    You can get away with having one circulation pump only with some very creative plumbing, I've seen it done but I don't advise it. You will run into flow issues in the pool especially if you have a spa overflow and a pressure side cleaner. 99% of the vanishing edge pool I've come across have a pump the circulates the water from the overflow trough. If you're gonna take the time to install a pump for that, then you might as well spend a little more money and take advantage of the extra pump on your system and plumb in a filter as well. Again, you don't need to have a fitler hooked up to this overflow pump but its good to use the extra pump for extra filtration of the water. The filter for the overflow doesn't need to be large in capacity by any means. Make sure to install a cartridge filter for the overflow because there is no skimmer to add D.E. to in an overflow trough. I hope that helps.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Thanks, that was very quick and very helpful.
    Yes Bruce, it is a small pool to my standards as well! but my friend is intent on using this small area as an oasis from the heat of summer, so I'm out to help him! It is a real pain but skimmers would have meant loss of valuable depth in this particular case.
    How many returns would be best for the overflow water? I was planning on two from the main drains and one for the overflow. Would two returns for the overflow be better?
    I've factored in a 1m2 surge tank as the surface of the pool is only 10m2 and I've read to put in one a tenth of the surface area more or less. I've got a very experienced team I work with in the building side of things, but a novice when it comes to pools and I gather infinity edges are'nt the best thing to begin with!!
    Yes Pacifica I concur, more filtration the better!
    I'll post some pictures of the finished product when it's all done.
    Thanks again, and I'm sure I'll be screaming for some help a bit later!!
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Guest

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Quote Originally Posted by Project
    How many returns would be best for the overflow water? I was planning on two from the main drains and one for the overflow. Would two returns for the overflow be better?
    Depending on the length of the trough, I would try and put in three pick ups for the V-Edge pump in the floor (don't forget to plumb an overflow drain line if you get a lot of rain and don't want the trough to overflow. This would need to be connected to landscape drainage.) and have a couple of return line fittings plumbed in to the pool. The return water could come up from the pool floor or wall fittings, depending on your preference. It is not critical, you just need water to return back to the pool to flood the edge. The last V-Edge I built in Cabo had all the return line fittings in the wall opposing the V-edge, as well as all the pick up and returns for the pool. When you looked out across the pool you could not see a single fitting in the pool

    Use 2" or larger plumbing and it will run efficiently (stay with the same size coming and going). I like a 300 square foot filter for the edge as well.

    How wide are you making the trough? I used to like 24" but have moved to 36" width lately.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Totally agree about filtering the water in the catch basin as its the most contaminated.

    The formula we use as a minimum for sizing a catch basin is, potential bather displacement + water in transit = catch basin freeboard. Any reduction will result in the basin overflowing (you should have a way of controling this overflow so it doesn't erode or undermine the structure) This formula does not allow for high activity levels in the pool unless you couple it with a switch that turns on the edge pump when the basin reaches a high level.

    One of the other main considerations is preventing the water in the pool from dumping into the catch basin through the edge pump plumbing when its off. You can use vacuum breakers and/or redundant check valves depending on how much insurance you want to prevent a dump.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    The pool itself will only have a 3m edge so, I was thinking of catching it via a disguised guttering and sending it down to the surge tank via two pick ups (I will now consider 3 thanks to Bruce , by the way I bet the cabo pool looked nice! )
    In the surge tank I was going to install the following:
    1. An autofill to make sure the water level is always healthy and therefore the pump never runs dry
    2. An overflow in case of heavy rain/malfunction
    3. An automatic switch for the pump so that it will come on and off depending on the water levels in the surge tank to eliminate manual switching on or off of pump (as well as timer operation with the normal cleaning cycle)
    Does this sound sensible to you guys?
    Cheers
    Paul
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

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    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Quote Originally Posted by Project
    The pool itself will only have a 3m edge so, I was thinking of catching it via a disguised guttering and sending it down to the surge tank via two pick ups (I will now consider 3 thanks to Bruce , by the way I bet the cabo pool looked nice! )
    In the surge tank I was going to install the following:
    1. An autofill to make sure the water level is always healthy and therefore the pump never runs dry
    2. An overflow in case of heavy rain/malfunction
    3. An automatic switch for the pump so that it will come on and off depending on the water levels in the surge tank to eliminate manual switching on or off of pump (as well as timer operation with the normal cleaning cycle)
    Does this sound sensible to you guys?
    Cheers
    Paul
    That is an understatement. If you look at some of his older posts you will find a link to pictures of it. It is off the hook nice.
    11000 Gals, Intelliflo, Sta-Rite Cartridge, Polaris 360

    Pool I built in my old house: my-new-pool-build-t4534.html

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    yeah, just checked it out...VERY NICE....you must of been proud of that one when it was all done!
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Guest

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Thanks guys. Some are definitely more fun to build than others Thank you for the nice comments.

    An autofill is a necessity in a V-Edge pool, as is an overflow, so you are on track with that, Paul. I would also assume that the entire pool would be automated as well, and you could set the edge pump up with that system. Automation allows for you to customize so much of your pool that it is almost expected anymore, and nearly a requirement on a pool such as this!

    Keep us posted on your progress! Should be a beautiful project!

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Hi Guys
    Well, we are nearly done. We had major delays with unusual seasonal weather and then people staying in the house, but we can see light at the end of the tunnel.
    I am just getting myself confused about the autolevel system for the pool, if you could please help I'd appreciate it.
    I know that on a normal pool you would put the auto level at the pool surface level you wanted to maintain, I read on a post here somewhere that this is what you should do on an infinity edge.....however, I cant wrap my mind around the following........if you were to place it here, then when water was displaced from the pool, the auto leveller would turn on, ok up till now. But when the level in the surge tank reached recirculation point, we now would have more water than before in the pool. If this happens then its going to be a problem right?
    Does the autofill put in the surge tank just modulate the water within there and make sure the pump does not lose prime or is the pool level kept correct from here also?
    HELP PLEASE - Im now chasing my tail.
    Thanks in advance
    Regards
    Newbie
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Guest

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    The vanishing edge is the level of the pool at all times (unless you turn the water off, have a leak, excess evaporation/splash out, etc.). The level of the surge tank is the one (in this case) where the auto-fill is that dictates the level of the surge tank. Typically there is about a foot of free board between the running versus non running system (in other words, the tank will draw down a foot of water under operating conditions). The auto-fill will want to keep the water at the running level to allow it to remain properly filled when the system shuts down and the edge once again becomes the pool water elevation.

    You are definitely in the home stretch! Please post up pictures when you are done!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Thanks Bruce
    Have you ever thought so long about something you were worse off than you were before??
    I think I get what you're saying and I feel a bit stupid!
    Obviously whenever the edge pump stops the pool will be at the optimum edge level! so basically its just the surge tank that needs its level maintained to stop the pump running dry, as whenever the system runs it will keep the pool maintained.
    Is that right?
    Just one other thing....
    The pool is very small, more like a splash pool 3.4m x 3m and I've made the mistake of only leaving one return and the vacuum port. Will the one return be ok? or is there some way I should use the vacuum as the second return and plumb in a vacuum line somehow?
    Thanks guys, I'm going to become a supporter of this site as you have all really helped! I live on a small island in the med and you wouldnt believe some of the things I ve been told I should do with this pool.
    Cheers
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Guest

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    I'm not smart enough to think for too long Besides, I'm not even smart enough to think that I have been thinking for too long, so maybe I have and don't know it

    The edge will level itself to the edge elevation, correct. That means that the surge tank needs to maintain elevation, also correct! If you did not run the pump for several days, and evaporation is severe, then you could obviously lower the water elevation in your pool (I have seen v-edge pools with auto-fills on the pool and the edge also, for this reason) to below the edge elevation. It sounds like you are set up properly on the surge tank to accommodate what you need for your application.

    One return is not optimal (how big is it also?), and it would be better to have more. You could possibly re-plumb the suction line to be a return, and then put your vacuum in the skimmer (assuming you have a skimmer and are not using the edge as one!). Otherwise you will need to core and plumb in additional lines. You could also use a leaf basket on a pole to skim manually, depending on how much debris you think you will be getting in the pool. Being that it is relatively small, I probably wouldn't even put a pool cleaner in and would do it by hand.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Cheers Bruce
    I think the evidence points to the fact you are smart mate!!
    My return is a 50mm or 2 inch line, Ive got no skimmer as one of the main reasons using the edge like this was to keep maximum depth, to be quite honest I wish I had just gone for a raised skimmer!! nevermind I've learnt a ton and hopefully it will come into use soon again. I know its not optimal but the one return should still function ok no?
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Guest

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Well, since you have just one line (and it is bigger than I had expected, so that is a plus!) for now, I would run it and see how it performs. You can still go back later and re-plumb the suction line if you have to (at least you have the option). You may find that you are able to handle the pool with just the one line, and that will be the end of that

    It is 10 am here; what time is it by you? Your responses are quick, so either you can't sleep or it is still relatively early in your day!

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Infinity overflow return

    Right I'll give that a go then!
    It is 19:22 here so not quite sleepy yet! It takes a lot for me to loose sleep, but this pool cuts it close sometimes!!!
    Thanks again Bruce, I'll be posting some pics real soon.
    Have a good one!
    Cheers
    Paul
    30 foot round AGP (25k gal), 2.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Diver Dan pool vac, TF-100 Test kit
    -It takes less time to do things right then it does to do it again.

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