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Thread: My numbers after Borates

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    My numbers after Borates

    After getting my pool into pretty good balance and adding borates here's where I am:

    • FC 5.5
      CC 0
      pH 7.6
      TA 90
      CH 300
      CYA 40
      Salt 600
      Borate 50
      Temp 60
      CSI -0.17


    My TA seems to have gone up a bit with application of Boric Acid, which contradicts what Chem Geek said here.

    That is at the high end of recommended. Should I worry about getting it down to 70 or 80?

    Also, should I bring my CH up to 350? Being a noob I have been shooting for the middle of the recommended range.

    The water looks great. Now I wish it would just warm up a bit so we can get in there!

    Thanks!
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: My numbers after Borates

    Those numbers are great! You really don't need to do anything right now. Your TA will probably drift down very slowly, which is good, but no need to rush the process.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: My numbers after Borates

    Looks like a great job on your part. Enjoy!
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: My numbers after Borates

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Salt 600
    The water looks great. Now I wish it would just warm up a bit so we can get in there!
    • The pool water has 600 ppm salt? Interesting. Do you have a salt water chlorine generator (SWG)? I know some people add salt to non-SWG pools because they claim the water feels better. Are you measuring salt with test strips?



    Quote Originally Posted by In [url="http://www.troublefreepool.com/post154918.html#p154918"
    post154918.html#p154918[/url]
    svenpup]It really does sparkle by the way.

    I was looking for the post that said the site admins have to pay out $$$ to anyone who adds borates and says it DOESN'T sparkle, but I would have to lie.
    • Sorry, you've been disqualified. That hoot all by itself would have been enough. See Contest Rules
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: My numbers after Borates

    All pools always have some salt in them. Salt is in many of the chemicals you routinely add to the pool (like chlorine). This is why we say you should always measure the salt level before adding salt for a SWG, the starting salt level will never be zero.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: My numbers after Borates

    I don't have an SWG. I am thinking about going to 2000 ppm salt just for the "feel" and I got the strips to determine my baseline value. Take this as an example of Jason's advice...600 ppm without ever specifically adding salt.

    A word to the wise for anyone planning to do Borates...going the boric acid route is super easy (no muriatic acid or pH shifts to deal with) but definitely go with the granular vs powder. I did it in two batches; the first was granules and the second was powder. The granules sunk to the bottom, and after a few minutes of brushing were completely dissolved. I thought the powder would dissolve even easier. Boy was I wrong. The powder was a mess. Half of it floated around on the top and all of it clumped into impenetrable globs. Visualize making hot chocolate with cold water.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Lana537's Avatar
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    Hello Svenpup~ Love your avatar~

    What kind of borates did you use that you had granular and powder?

    We have only ever used the 20 Mule Team Borax, and I don't recall having any of the "hot chocolate in cold water clumping". Thinking back on it though, I believe we did it when the water was swimmable, meaning at least 72 degrees.

    Basically just wondering what that granular stuff was that you used; it seems like a good thing and an interesting alternative for when my stores run out of the Borax, which they do often.

    Thank you~

    Lana
    23,600 gallon, refurbished 1960's inground concrete, Jandy sand filter w Jandy 2 hp variable speed pump, Pool Pilot Digital SWCG+Chemtrol 2100+CO2 tank; PebbleTec White Pearl with 10% Cobalt Blue Dark Beadcrete by Olympic Pool Plastering, Georgia. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit; Aqua Check Salt test; LaMotte borates test, and Jack's Magic Sequest test kit; SparklyPoolitis level: extremely high.

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lana537
    Hello Svenpup~ Love your avatar~
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lana537
    What kind of borates did you use that you had granular and powder?

    We have only ever used the 20 Mule Team Borax, and I don't recall having any of the "hot chocolate in cold water clumping". Thinking back on it though, I believe we did it when the water was swimmable, meaning at least 72 degrees.

    Basically just wondering what that granular stuff was that you used; it seems like a good thing and an interesting alternative for when my stores run out of the Borax, which they do often.
    I used boric acid, which is roughly pH balanced (slightly acidic) so you don't have to use muriatic acid with it. The powdered stuff was the consistency of confectioners sugar.

    Just to be clear, this was to bring my borate level up to 50 ppm as discussed here as opposed to adding Borax to bring up pH.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: Re:

    I just finished borating my pool after waiting a very long time for my Boric Acid to arrive. (it got stuck in the post for 1 month) It was powder and I mixed it in a bucket first and made a slurry before adding this to the pool. I still had some lumps when it went in the pool but it dissolved after about 30 minutes. I had to use 5 buckets or so to get the full 25kg bag that I needed to get up to 50ppm. (thanks to the pool calculator!) I tested with the La Motte strips and I was right on the money.

    One thing that was a bit of a surprise was that the PH actually dropped after adding the Boric Acid. I started with the PH at 7.6 and went and had a look in my pool room and the PH had dropped to about 7.3. I thought that was a bit strange.

    I have now scrubbed the walls and bottom and made the water a little cloudy. I have left the filter on and hopefully tomorrow it will have cleared up.

    I'll be very interested to see how it appears in the next few days. After following everything up until now from this site I must say that my results have been already excellent. I hope that the Boric Acid adds just that little bit extra!

    Thanks again for your help over the last months...
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Re: My numbers after Borates

    Boric acid is slightly acidic so what you found with the pH drop is normal. It is 20 Mule Team Borax that is high in pH and can be used to raise the pH. Those are different, but related, chemicals. Basically, borax plus acid makes boric acid.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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