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Thread: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

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    Henry Porter's Avatar
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    What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    Hi!
    I am a little peplexed why I haven't seen any of the builds presented here using a hose underground instead of the stiff plastic tubes with numerous of joints hidden underground. From my way of seeing it a hose with radious cornes and with no joints should be a better option.
    BUT!! I am very much aware of how far ahead of us you are when it comes to poolbuilds, so there must be an advantage that I have overlooked. I just can't figuring it out.
    I know that many of your builds have more compicated plumbings with spas and all the extras that you normally doesen't stumble across here. but you can join together this hoose aswell and those joints would I prefer underground in comparison to a glued one.
    I don't belive money is what is all about. The extra cost must be small compared to the many $$$ spent on the whole project.

    I thought it perhaps had something to do with that you want a nice and tidy asssembly on the equipment pad but that is easy achived since you can go from the hose to the tubes just above the ground in order to achive that.
    Personally I will go from the stiff hose to a more flexible one in my machine room.
    I attach a picture of what hose we use over here. That wont break or leak no matter what, it is the same sort that goes into every house with the freshwater supply. Personally I feel confident to cover that hose with concrete.

    //Mats

    [attachment=0:3gemehhu]PEMpem tube.gif[/attachment:3gemehhu]
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    Rigid pipe, even with many joints, has proven more reliable over the long term. Flexible pipe can crush or kink, especially under suction, and joints in flexible pipe require more skill to achieve the same level or reliability. The difference isn't huge, flex is used fairly often and does not fail instantly or anything like that, but rigid just seems to have fewer problems.
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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    The pipe shown in the picture appears to be a black-poly pipe. This requires barbed fittings and stainless clamps for attachments to Schedule 40 plumbing. Over time, the connections loosen and leak. With tighter radius turns, they can kink, especially with suction applications. Hard, pressure rated PVC pipe doesn't.

    The black poly pipe typically needs a deeper trench. The curve from the roll needs the added weight of the soil on top to keep it from erupting to the surface, especially when it's being laid out on a cool day. Back filling as it's being laid is needed. If a pressure test shows a leak and it's not at a fitting, it's in the pipe, requiring it to be dug up again. I can lay hard pipe and not backfill till it's passed a pressure test.

    The biggest use for black-poly pipe in my neck of the woods is for built in landscaping sprinkler systems where minor leaks are minor issues.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
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    Henry Porter's Avatar
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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Rigid pipe, even with many joints, has proven more reliable over the long term. Flexible pipe can crush or kink, especially under suction, and joints in flexible pipe require more skill to achieve the same level or reliability. The difference isn't huge, flex is used fairly often and does not fail instantly or anything like that, but rigid just seems to have fewer problems.
    Yeah flexible pipes is something compleatly different but the hose showed in the pic won't leak.
    I agree with Scott that they need a bigger trench and that is probably the answer to my question. It takes a little more job to get it right but when it's there(for the best of my thinking) it must be a better solution.
    I can't say how joints underground will do over time. I have access to all my joints exept for one T-joint that I have mounted on the freshwater line to the house that I had to do in order to get water to the machineroom. To mount that T-joint was a piece of cake and it will be safe underground accroding to plumbers that I have talked to. I hope they are right.

    Any way is it is interesting to see the difference in way of thinking. None of the poolbuilders working over here would dig down rigid pipes. We use them but only in machinerooms as an option to flexible hoses.
    I came to think of the problem reading this thread next-on-my-honey-do-list-t18927.html among many others
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    There is some semi-flexible PVC that now seems to be gaining popularity with some PBs. It has a fairly large bending radius and it glues like ridged PVC but doesn't have the same problems as some of the previously used flexible PVC.
    Mark
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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    My pool is plumbed with 2 inch black poly. 4 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 wall suction, all run separately back to the equipment pad. No joints underground except where the pipe attaches to the fittings in the pool wall/skimmer body.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    My builder used rigid PVC, but heated it with a torch to bend it around the curves. Once it cooled, it firmed right back up. They do it all of the time as it allows them to avoid joints and elbows by a wide margin.
    Jim

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    Henry Porter's Avatar
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    Re: What's is it with stiff plastic tubes and US pool plumbings?

    Great to hear! just like me then. With the exception that I will have access to the joint in the poolwall aswell. I thought it could be worthwhile if something will happens to them in the future.
    They are not done yet but here is a pic on the framework on one of the jointboxes to one of the lamps. Those boxes are so easy making so I did them to be on the safe side. Eventually I think a wooden lid at the same level as the surrounding concrete will add some extra looks to the pooldeck rather than the opposite.

    [attachment=0:3e4rxth1]UpdateIMG_4963.gif[/attachment:3e4rxth1]
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    I always kind of wondered If you ever made it through Seen a shooting star tonight And I thought of you

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