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Thread: Question on pop up cleaners

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    Question on pop up cleaners

    I have just purchased a new house and am new to pools. The pool that was with the house has a pop up cleaning system installed by Paddock Pools. At first the pump would pop the breaker so I installed a new 2 HP pump. Old pump was a 1.5HP. Then the pop ups would kinda work and I found that the gear assy (paramount 6 port) was the problem. The gears were stripped out and I replaced that. I let it run for 8 hours last night with the filter pump running the same time. Two thirds of the pool was super clean this morning except for one portion in the deep end. There is a big port in the bottom/center of the pool which I believe is the intake port to the filter. There are two pop ups about 3 feet away on the right and left. These pop ups are shooting water toward the port and do not rotate. I noticed that when the system is running, they do not drop and rotate. If I turn off the pump then they drop but when the pump is on they still stay up the whole time and did not change flow direction. Is this how these two pop ups are suppose to work or should they be rotating as well. I thought they may be fixed directional jets to push toward the bottom return?
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Indialantic, FL
    Posts
    323

    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Sounds like a Paramount PCC 200 system (if that helps).
    Geometric 16X36', 16K gal, shotcrete, exposed aggregate plaster, acrylic coated concrete deck/cantilever coping;
    Pentair equipment suite (EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, Intelliflo VS-3050, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG);
    Heliocol solar panels, Rocky's Roller, Blue Diamond robot

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Thanks. I am not sure it is the 200o. I need to look at one of the pop up heads to verify.
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Vero Beach, FL
    Posts
    462

    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    According to the brochure on the PCC 200, there are two jets at the deepest part of the pool that do not rotate and push debris to the collection port. So it seems that it is working correctly.
    25' x 13' Roman, 12000 gal IGP, Plaster, with 500 gal Spa
    SWG, 1 HP Max Flo Pump, C-900 cartridge filter
    Solar heat

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Thanks. I was actually looking at the brochure last night. If that is the case, then my main drain must not be working properly. Anyone have any idea on how to clean or troubeshoot if it is operating correctly or is there a way to back flush through the drain?
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Well, I am a little disappointed with this pop up cleaning system. It seems to clean the shallow end pretty good but all the dirt collects by the collection port and it seems to not suck any of it in. I found the other collection net and clean it regularly. It looks like I have to sweep the deep end every other day.
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Indialantic, FL
    Posts
    323

    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    It does sound as if the drain is not working properly. Is there a valve on the suction side of the pump controlling the relative amounts of flow between the drain and skimmer? I would think the drain needs to have a good percentage of the flow for an in-floor cleaning system like the PCC 2000.

    Some of the Paramount systems also had a separate debris containment system (separate from the skimmer net) - if it's there can you tell if water is flowing through the system? That would confirm if the drain is working or not.

    And my apology if this advice consisted of things you have already looked at.
    Geometric 16X36', 16K gal, shotcrete, exposed aggregate plaster, acrylic coated concrete deck/cantilever coping;
    Pentair equipment suite (EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, Intelliflo VS-3050, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG);
    Heliocol solar panels, Rocky's Roller, Blue Diamond robot

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    What main drain do you have? We had a paramount SPX that we had to upgrade to the MDX. SPX & MDX are the covers to the main drain system.

    Our pool has the pcc-2000 system. There is a debris canister between the main drain and the filter. You can download manuals for the system at the paramount site. That might help you determine how your system is set up.

    Our pcc-2000 system water comes through the skimmer, pump, then to the pcc. I have a filter sock in the skimmer basket as the water does not go through the filter.

    Main drain, debris, pump, filter, to wall returns.


    I can e-mail the manual(s) if you have problems locating them.

    I have called Paramount with questions and ordered parts. They are a very customer oriented company and will help in any way possible.
    16K gallon, Pebble tec, beach entry. Two 1 hp Pentair Whisperflos. One for Paramount MDX2 main drain, Paramount debris canister, and Pentair CCP 520 filter. One for skimmer w/sock and Paramount PCC2000 in floor cleaner. 3/4 hp Pentair Pinnacle for waterfall. Fiberstars fiber optic pool lighting. Aqua-Logic AQL-P-4 control panel with wired remote in the house. SWCG system that is not used. Ultra-Pure Ozonator that is not used.

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Quote Originally Posted by lee32903
    It does sound as if the drain is not working properly. Is there a valve on the suction side of the pump controlling the relative amounts of flow between the drain and skimmer? I would think the drain needs to have a good percentage of the flow for an in-floor cleaning system like the PCC 2000.

    Some of the Paramount systems also had a separate debris containment system (separate from the skimmer net) - if it's there can you tell if water is flowing through the system? That would confirm if the drain is working or not.

    And my apology if this advice consisted of things you have already looked at.
    That is a very good point. I do have a diverter valve that regulates how much each one pumps. I will offset that a little bit and see if that makes a difference. I did find the net cannister that the drain filters through. I do clean that daily as well. I did open it up while running and yes, water is flowing through.
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Quote Originally Posted by anthrobe
    Quote Originally Posted by lee32903
    It does sound as if the drain is not working properly. Is there a valve on the suction side of the pump controlling the relative amounts of flow between the drain and skimmer? I would think the drain needs to have a good percentage of the flow for an in-floor cleaning system like the PCC 2000.

    Some of the Paramount systems also had a separate debris containment system (separate from the skimmer net) - if it's there can you tell if water is flowing through the system? That would confirm if the drain is working or not.

    And my apology if this advice consisted of things you have already looked at.
    That is a very good point. I do have a diverter valve that regulates how much each one pumps. I will offset that a little bit and see if that makes a difference. I did find the net cannister that the drain filters through. I do clean that daily as well. I did open it up while running and yes, water is flowing through.
    I beleive I have the MDX draining system
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Woodberg's Avatar
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX (Candlelight Estates)
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    136

    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    The two fixed nozzles that point toward the drain should push all of the debris into the drain. They are supposed to gently push the debris to the drain, but not past it. One test is to push a few leaves in front of the fixed jets and see how the leaves move toward the main drain. If they don't make it all the way to the drain, you may need nozzles with a larger orifice. I have a PCC-2000 system and I don't have much dirt collected a the drain.
    20,000 gallon gunite pool, attached spa, Pebblesheen finish, Paramount PCC-2000 infloor cleaning system, Paramount ClearO3 ozone system, Intelliflo VS main pump, Whisperflo 1HP cleaner pump, StaRite cartridge filter, StaRite heater

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodberg
    The two fixed nozzles that point toward the drain should push all of the debris into the drain. They are supposed to gently push the debris to the drain, but not past it. One test is to push a few leaves in front of the fixed jets and see how the leaves move toward the main drain. If they don't make it all the way to the drain, you may need nozzles with a larger orifice. I have a PCC-2000 system and I don't have much dirt collected a the drain.
    thanks!! I have a lot of trees around the pool and there is always a few leaves at the bottom of the pool. The system actually does a great job removing the leaves. It just seems to not get all the dirt out of the deep end. You can actually see the spay area with the two fixed heads and it is clean between them and the drain for the most part. The problem lies around the other sides of the drain. I will have more time this week to mess with it. I need to verify the other heads in the vicinity of the deep in are rotating.
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unknown pool size -Diving pool

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Check the water return "eyballs" as well. There should be some "slotted" returns that aim the water down the side of the pool towards the drain. They help push dirt towards the fixed cleaner nozzles.

    I need to run the cleaner pump and the main drain pump at the same time to get the best cleaning results. Just running the cleaner pushes dirt around the pool. Running the main drain alone allows dirt to settle away from the main drain. This is how my system works. Yours may be different.
    16K gallon, Pebble tec, beach entry. Two 1 hp Pentair Whisperflos. One for Paramount MDX2 main drain, Paramount debris canister, and Pentair CCP 520 filter. One for skimmer w/sock and Paramount PCC2000 in floor cleaner. 3/4 hp Pentair Pinnacle for waterfall. Fiberstars fiber optic pool lighting. Aqua-Logic AQL-P-4 control panel with wired remote in the house. SWCG system that is not used. Ultra-Pure Ozonator that is not used.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Question on pop up cleaners

    Also, check some of the popups nearest your "dead spots" If you have just one head clogged, you will get a accumulation that won't get pushed near the fixed heads to migrate to the M/D. You should be able to get a tool for removing the heads online.

    Note: some heads are left hand, (turn clockwise) 1/4 turn to remove and will most likely be difficult to remove due to sand/grit that has gotten in there. Leave the cleaner pump running when doing this. When the water valve cycles to the head you are working on, the debris will get flushed out of the socket.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
    Jandy/Zodiac, Pentair, Sta-Rite, Raypak, Polaris,
    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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