Putting in New Filter and Pump This Week DIY - Suggestions

[geekgranny]

Just as a starter so I'll have a reminder to post more, hopefully, tonight, to get the post really stared, with pics. My Pentair Quad 80 is sitting here and the Pentair Intelliflo VF, and high flow, multi valve, will be in Tuesday. DUH, I haven't even ordered the flex pipe and unions yet but might have them 2 day-ed if weather is good next week.

The filter will be in a temporary place until I totally replumb and maybe move the pad location, just a bit, in Spring, so I'm using 2" flex pipe to make the job easier for me. NOTE "temporary". I'll be posting pics for any suggestions for where to cut old pipes. For this segment of job I'll even get to redo some of the 29 years of "Frankenplumbing" at station.

Not really looking for "advice" or "teaching" so much as suggestions. I have some experience.

Later, gg=alice

 

[waste]

Congrats, Alice!

I remember your under the deck system but will wait until you post some fresh pics, just to make sure my memory is correct

As I'm sure you know, probably the most important issue here is following the instructions on the glue and primer! (Also have a rag handy to wipe the drips - even though this is temporary, let's leave you with a good looking plumb job )

I don't know if your local hardware store has short pieces of 2" rigid SCH 40 PVC, but I would suggest using that for the pump to filter and other 'top side' connections

Keep us informed as to your progress and we'll proffer our advice/ suggestions

 

[Guest]

I second Ted; ditch the flex!!! No reputable repair person would use that stuff when they can do it right the first time (even if it is temporary)!

Nice equipment!! Congrats!!!

 

[geekgranny]

Okay, you guys win. I'll go with the rigid. I'm sure I can find the rigid somewhere. I'm pretty close to Dallas, but I think the Independent Pool Store (owned by my favorite pool guy - he doesn't do pool maintenance or pool building; just fixing/installation), about 7 miles east of me can supply me with all I need, including unions. It may cost a bit more but I like to support him.

I was considering having him do it all; may still. At least it will absolutely be the best job possible. I'm going to have to count my remaining pennies or sell something else. When he came, last spring, to replace my booster pump, (prior to me knowing about TFP) I asked him about moving the whole pumping station down the hill several feet. His first reply was, "Do you want to spend that much money?" and then "Do you really want me out here that many hours?" Gotta luv him. He knows how much we value our privacy and "hermitness". He works really fast, though, and no excessive chatting. He keeps me in line just like DH does. :lol:

BTW... I ordered a composite filter pad to put the filter on. It will be on pea gravel. It's made by the same company that makes the pads for under cook grills and others like for condensers, heating units, etc. Also, as the new filter will be fully in the sun, I'm going to drape it with some most excellent, lightweight, shade cloth that came with my Bloomhouse greenhouses. It will disguise it a bit too, so near the rust red, metal, deck railing/post. I use it for all kinds of things. Best aftermarkets use, so far, was moving some big, delicate tropicals with an hour of Interstate travel. Put them on their sides and draped and weighted the shade cloth. Only one broken twig that I probably broke putting them in the truck. I've sent out some good sized banana plants, loaning the cloths for travel (to friends). Never had a broken leaf yet.

I had a question when I sat down here but can't remember now; "oldtimers" again.

Oh yea, the one pipe, on the pressure side, going to the returns, above the ball valve, which is pretty close to the ground, is one long pipe, about 8"-10", that a 1.5" pipe coming out of ball valve fits into inside. At least I think the pipe from the ball valve is a 1.5" The 90 degree fitting, going to the old filter valve fits inside the the top. The 90 is pointed about 180 degrees away from the direction of the temporary location for filter, and, of course a couple or more feet below where the multi valve for filter will be. I want to cut that 90 out, and increase the pipe to 2" at that point and, of course, change the direction of the pipe. Five 90's will be elimated from the old "Frankenplumbing" along with two 1.5" slip uninions that I put in to be able to put in and remove the Nature 2 vessel, for winter (they freeze even with moving water) (of course I'm no longer using the Nature 2 (Thankyou TFP). I know I need to measure the outside diamters of the fittings. Is this pretty standard stuff? I want to use slip unions, as much as possible, to avoid any more cutting of pipes when I move the filter to under the deck.

I know, I know, I need to post pictures, and hope to tonight.

Thanks bunches, gg=alice

 

[waste]

Alice and Bruce,

I have NO problem with some flex pipe used temporarily! I just thought it would be used to get the piping to the new location and the pump and filter would be ~permanent, therefore the suggestion for rigid pipe betwixt them

Alice, I've complemented you on your knowledge and help before :lol: I'd LOVE to have my pool customers be as informed as you are!!

You know what you're doing and what you want, as your initial post said, all you need is a 'tweak' or 2 in doing the work. I AM POSITIVE that you can handle this yourself (as long as you keep good notes - so the 'oldtimers' doesn't cause problems ) :-D

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

FYI, both Lowes and Home Depot carry solid core pipe and fittings. Any NeverLube valves though, go to a builder or other source as H-D and Lowes won't have them. Lowes has a better selection of fittings usually. The prices are reasonable.

Scott

 

[Brentr]

FYI, both Lowes and Home Depot carry solid core pipe and fittings. Any NeverLube valves though, go to a builder or other source as H-D and Lowes won't have them. Lowes has a better selection of fittings usually. The prices are reasonable.

Scott

Scott our Home Depot carries never lube valves. I can't seem to remember what brand they are. I found them by accident when I was looking for unions to plumb the heat pump. At our HD they are located in the same isle with the sprinkler fitings, also they carry pool pumps which are an off brand. Of couse you could purchase them off the web.

 

[polyvue]

FYI, both Lowes and Home Depot carry solid core pipe and fittings.

Please forgive a slight diversion from the thread topic in order to ask this queston:

What is the identifying mark or characteristic for plumbing that uses Schedule 40 PVC solid core rather than foam core? I assume foam/cellular is less expensive, but how can one tell the difference? Thanks.

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

The pressure rating is written. Example 1-1/2" is rated 330 PSI @ 73 degrees. Foam/Cellular core is substantially less and is usually stamped as such. They guy in the aisle should be able to point you to the right pipe and fittings.

In my area, Lowes' selection of 2" materials is much larger and more complete.

Neither Lowes nor H-D in my area carry suitable 3-Ways. Supporting the local guy that Alice likes is a good thing for the unions and valves. If he ever needs to service her, he'll have matching unions, handles, etc... Pipe and fittings will be less expensive at the box stores.

Scott

 

[JasonLion]

For swimming pool use you want schedule 40 pipe and fittings. Foam core is DWV only, never schedule 40.

Check on every single piece you are going to purchase to make sure that piece is marked schedule 40. At places like Home Depot and Lowes things tend to get a little mixed up and pieces with other ratings are sometimes in a bin or on a shelf marked as schedule 40. You can use schedule 80 if you have to, though it costs more. You don't want pipe or fittings that are labeled as DWV (drain/waste/vent) unless they are also labeled as schedule 40. Sometimes things have more than one rating/label, in which case they are good for all the labeled applications.

You also want to use a pipe cement rated for schedule 40 at the pipe diameter you are using. Typically that will be something labeled as medium strength cement. In some areas you are required to use tinted primer instead of clear primer. You might as well get tinted primer just to be sure, since it doesn't cost more and the only possible disadvantage is aesthetic (and if you care about that you can always paint over it).

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

The size of the swab on the glue is what dictates the "Do Not Excede" pipe size. Quart sized cans normally come with an applicator swab that's for two 2" wipes, one male and one female, when new. The same is true for cleaner and primer.

PVC glue/cement is more than about strength. It's also about viscocity or body. Larger pipes need the heavy bodied cements in normal applications. Thinner bodied cements are often used in cooler application temps. I normally use medium bodied cements. I will use heavies on anything 4" or larger, such as for swim jets. In November, when dealing with cooler temps in the 40s and 50s, I will switch from med and heavy to light and med. cements. Often people raise an eyebrow when seeing yellow cement for the 1st time. Works fine for me and them,. No failures ever that I know of.

Scott

 

[polyvue]

For swimming pool use you want schedule 40 pipe and fittings. Foam core is DWV only, never schedule 40.

That's what I was hoping... Last year, "the guy in the aisle" at HD guided me in purchasing several lengths of 2" PVC but my friend (who knows far more than I about plumbing) told me to take it back. It was marked "DWV". My friend told me that DWV is used for "vent stacks" but that I needed better stock for pool plumbing. I wasn't sure at the time but it seems he was correct.

 

[geekgranny]

I was in the HD close to me, last night. I went over to plumbing just to see what they had. Didn't have any, as I figured. The plumbing dept woman, told me to head over to xxxx pluming supply, only a couple of miles from our HD. I went there way, way back for something I needed and had forgotten about them.

At any rate question. I picked up the new pump and multiport valve, at the UPS store last night. No worries, I ordered the right multivalve, recommended, as the Pentair Quad has in/out ports like a sand filter (which is opposite to most DE filters).

Questions.....

When I cut my old filter out, the 2" grey pipe, coming out of pump, pressure side, has threads for the pipe. I guess this is pretty standard. It has clear caulk around the rim of opening and what appears to be pipe thread tape on the threads of pipe. I didn't take the time to try to unscrew it as I left the length of pipe on for future use. (BTW... my old pump, working, is not dual voltage...... bummer. I looked it up, just to be sure, on the A.O. Smith site, so I'm not going to be using it as a trash pump, as I don't want to put a tap off of the 220v supply to pool; hard to get that to code and potential dangerous and problematic without proper switch box, etc. So I'm just going to have to approach some pool guys to see if they'll do a trade for a 120 v pump.)

Anyway, all the ports on the multi-valve, 2", have the same threads. To lessen the amount of unions I'll need, and hard plumbing all in (until I move the whole pad) can't I just use the threaded pipes on all ports and add in a few 90s or 45s where needed. I guess the main question is how easily do these threaded pipes come out when I want to move every thing when I move the pumping station? That surely would make the job go fast.

The pump and valve are still in the car so I'll be able to check threading on the pipes I'm purchasing. I'm hoping that this plumbing supply place is one used regularly by pool guys/gals out this way.

Thanks, gg=alice

 

[geekgranny]

Another question. I'm putting the filter on a lower step than I had originally planned so it is elevated less from the pump. The filter multi valve will be ~ 2 ft below grade (top of pool) and ~ 2 ft above pumping station. The diagonal distance from station to filter is 4-5 ft. Would there be any advantage to move up the 2.5" pipes for this short run, that is, if the plumbing supply has 2.5 pipe and fittings? Pumping station is 20'-25' from pool, 4-5 ft below grade, where pipes 1.5", most under concrete pool decking, split off to returns, skimmer, and main drain. Actually, luckily, about 6 ft of the 1.5" pipes between pool and pumping station are under the top landing of railroad tie steps, filled with dirt, sand, and pea-gravel surface, so when I get really industrious, , I can replace those pipes with 2" or 2.5" pipes. About 4 years ago I had the lawn crew redo that landing with sand and pea-gravel, with several layers of landscape fabric sandwiched between layers. That's when they called me out to show me the location of the pipes. They are about 2 ft below the top of landing. The 1.5" pipes, 1 going to pool and splitting off to 4 returns, 1 from main drain, 1 from skimmer, and 1 to Polaris decicated return, come out below the railroad tie wall below the second step (landing size also) so there has to be a bunch of 1.5" 90s there too. Actually that's (8) 1.5' 90s right there. But that's low priority right now.

Thanks, gg=alice

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

At the speed and flows you'll be using, 2" is fine, especially since the lines will have so much 1-1/2" pipe still. You might change the pump's max speed from 3450 RPM to 2500. If the suction lines are flex, this will be important to them. You don't want them to collapse. Not as big an issue if the pipe is hard pipe but then safety concerns and head loss with increased water velocity take over.

Did you change the bottom drain cover to a VGB compliant one? They can handle a somewhat higher flow without loosing their effectiveness. Most are designed for about 120 GPM.

Scott

 

[geekgranny]

At the speed and flows you'll be using, 2" is fine, especially since the lines will have so much 1-1/2" pipe still. You might change the pump's max speed from 3450 RPM to 2500. If the suction lines are flex, this will be important to them. You don't want them to collapse. Not as big an issue if the pipe is hard pipe but then safety concerns and head loss with increased water velocity take over.

Did you change the bottom drain cover to a VGB compliant one? They can handle a somewhat higher flow without loosing their effectiveness. Most are designed for about 120 GPM.

Scott

I stopped by the plumbing supply store last week to make sure they had what I needed to plumb the pump and filter. They do unless I want something out of the ordinary but I don't for this temporary job. The weather surely is not cooperating right now. I'm going to wait until it warms up a bit but sure is a hard wait. And I really don't want to use the quick set glue.

I didn't change out the main drain. I guess I should have done that when I drained pool to acid wash in 2008 but I wasn't aware of the "new" drains, and coding then.

I'm thinking whether to even use as many slip/slip unions as I had planned in the begging. I'll have, on pressure side, coming out of pump about a 2.5 ft up vertical, then a 90 sweep, and then about a 3 ft shot, horizontal, going over to multi-valve for filter, all 2" pipe. The plumbing supply will make me a nipple (pipe with threads) to use coming out of pump. Should I use schedule 80 for that piece? If I keep it one pipe all the way up to the 90 there will be plenty of pipe to play play with when I move the pad down the hill, hopefully this summer. The Pentair multi-valve has slip, not threaded, ports for pipe connections. The multi-valve is already plumbed with female collars to attach to filter. Should I put a slip/slip union somewhere between the 90 and pipe entry into valve? If so where should I place it? Closer to valve or closer to 90?

The 1.5" skimmer and 1.5" drain, come together at a three way valve. It is a straight shot from that to the suction port on pump, all 2". The distance from 3-way valve to pump is only about 1 ft. Should I put a slip/slip union there, keeping in mind I'll hopefully be moving everything later? Where should I locate it; closer to valve or pump? Should I use schedule 80 here?

In both cases, does it matter much which way the slip/slip male/female union goes?

Thanks, gg=alice

 

[JasonLion]

There is rarely any need to use schedule 80 unless your supplier is out of stock on schedule 40, has the equivalent schedule 80 piece, and you want it right now.

PVC plumbing goes together very easily and it is quite simple to make a change as long as you have at least an inch or two of clear pipe. Adding a union adds a possible point of failure. If you are going to be disconnecting that union once a year or more, then it is worth having. But for a single move/disassembly, that will not be repeated, I would skip the unions and just cut the pipe when it comes time to move things. Just leave as much clear pipe run as you can coming out of the parts you want to reuse and you should be fine.

Of course, there are many ways to put things together that all work. The approach I am suggesting is not, by any means, the only way to do things.

 

[geekgranny]

There is rarely any need to use schedule 80 unless your supplier is out of stock on schedule 40, has the equivalent schedule 80 piece, and you want it right now.

Thanks. They don't keep the threaded nipples in stock but said they could make me up anything I wanted. I haven't even looked at what was on the old pump but it is grey, 2" going into and out of the pump. I was just assuming it was 80. I didn't ask them about 80 but surly they will have it as they are a major supplier for plumbers out this way.

PVC plumbing goes together very easily and it is quite simple to make a change as long as you have at least an inch or two of clear pipe. Adding a union adds a possible point of failure. If you are going to be disconnecting that union once a year or more, then it is worth having. But for a single move/disassembly, that will not be repeated, I would skip the unions and just cut the pipe when it comes time to move things. Just leave as much clear pipe run as you can coming out of the parts you want to reuse and you should be fine.

Of course, there are many ways to put things together that all work. The approach I am suggesting is not, by any means, the only way to do things.

That's good to hear. I've measured all inside and outside diameter existing pipes and ports and can look up the I/O diameters of different pipes to get exactly what I need. Keeping all the unions out will make it so easy and very fast. I'm getting excited. Rain on Thursday but Friday looks like a go.

I'll post before and after pics.

gg=alice