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Thread: Going to try to add borates

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Going to try to add borates

    hi,

    I want to add borates to our pool. Today i received a delivery from the chemical shop, and among other things i received boric acid. it is powder, contents says 100% boric acid, but under it says there is some boric oxide. Does this sound ok to use? I can take a pic of the label if it is not clear from my description what is inside.
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    If it's mostly boric acid, then that is fine to use. A small amount of boric oxide in it is OK. It will somewhat lower the pH if you add enough to get to 50 ppm (perhaps lowering the pH from 7.5 to 7.2, depending on your TA level).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    ok, great. Are there any precautions i need to make when handling boric acid, fumes, irritation etc?
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Boric acid is reasonably safe. I wear gloves when handling it, but even that isn't really necessary. You want to keep the undissolved powder away from pets. Pets are more sensitive to borates than people are.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Boric acid is reasonably safe. ... Pets are more sensitive to borates than people are.
    Not to mention insects.

    Once upon a time... I lived in an inner city apartment that had some sort of undisclosed, but previous agreed to, shared use clause with the local roach population.

    Raid and the other bug killers slowed them down a bit so you could hit 'em with a shoe, but that's about all. Since I was young and more than a little foolish, we also occasionally (and for fun) used butane lighters and cheapo hairspray as a flamethrower on the little critters.

    Then a kind old lady (my Great Aunt Jennette if you must know) told me to use a boric acid/powdered sugar mix (roughly 50/50). I sprinkled the mix in heating ducts, back corners of closets/pantry, etc. Roaches checked out in short order. Good ole Auntie knew her stuff.
    Geometric 16X36', 16K gal, shotcrete, exposed aggregate plaster, acrylic coated concrete deck/cantilever coping;
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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Quote Originally Posted by lee32903
    Not to mention insects. [...]
    Here's 5 Virtual Dollars and an Internet beer for your trouble... great story!

    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    I've been thinking about adding borates to our pool also. Is there an optimal time of year to start the process or does it even matter?
    20,000 gallon gunite pool, attached spa, Pebblesheen finish, Paramount PCC-2000 infloor cleaning system, Paramount ClearO3 ozone system, Intelliflo VS main pump, Whisperflo 1HP cleaner pump, StaRite cartridge filter, StaRite heater

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    You want the pump working when adding borates, so don't add while winterized. Other than that, it doesn't make a large difference when you add borates. If you lower the water level for the winter, there is a small advantage to adding borates in the spring shortly after opening. That way you get the most use out of them before lowering the water level for the next winter, and thus losing some of the borates you added.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    report:

    i added 10kg of boric acid. tested after a few hours, borate level 30. ph went up a lot. added 1,5l of MA over a few days. now at 7,5. all is looking good. water feels nice, and is clean.
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Thanks for the report. That's really odd about the pH rising from boric acid. Normally, it would drop somewhat. Perhaps it was a mix of boric acid and borax. Really strange.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    yes, i thought it would drop a bit myself. i should say that it was the gardener that added the boric acid while i was away for a few days. when i got back, the ph was around 8. he said he hadnt added anything else. the swg could be the reason, i guess. but its a bit strange too, that it would rise so much just because of the swg.
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Thanks for the report. That's really odd about the pH rising from boric acid. Normally, it would drop somewhat. Perhaps it was a mix of boric acid and borax. Really strange.
    I too just switched to borates (Team Mule 20)this past weekend and my pH went up from 7.5 to 7.8 . I adjusted it back to 7.5 by adding muratic acid.
    No swimming as it is too cold and I have not noticed any water color change however the pool has been kept up to TFP specs
    48 hrs later the pH drifted back up to 7.8 so I again adjusted it back to 7.5 . I am runnning the SWG and the FC is about 8. Would this cause the pH to drift upwards??
    Borates test out at 50
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Quote Originally Posted by Brentr
    I too just switched to borates (Team Mule 20)this past weekend and my pH went up from 7.5 to 7.8 . I adjusted it back to 7.5 by adding muratic acid. No swimming as it is too cold and I have not noticed any water color change however the pool has been kept up to TFP specs. 48 hrs later the pH drifted back up to 7.8 so I again adjusted it back to 7.5 . I am runnning the SWG and the FC is about 8. Would this cause the pH to drift upwards?? Borates test out at 50
    Hi Brent,

    Not the chlorine, but the SWG could be a contributing factor. I just noticed you have the same over-sized chlorinator that I have. The TCELL-15 is promoted for pools <= 40K gallons; it's almost too much cell for your pool (mine, too) and so you should consider setting the percentage lower. It doesn't need to work that hard in the winter to sustain sufficient chlorine, especially with no one swimming right now.

    If you added borax (not boric acid) to your pool the pH rise is quite expected. Did you happen to read through the thread discussing how to apply it? It must be incredibly basic to require the acid that is called for in that procedure. So, the fact that your pH is continuing to rise 48 hrs later isn't surprising. If you have a water feature running along with the pump, disable it for a few days. I doubt that you'll have to purposefully aerate to increase pH, but don't press your luck by adding too much acid at one time. At 50 ppm, you're done adding borax.

    I understand that the administrators of this forum put $1000 each into a cash fund each year and award the proceeds to anyone who adds borax to their pool and successfully resists coming on the forum to announce that their pool is “sparkling.” To my knowledge, they’ve never had to pay out. Good luck in the contest.

    Greg
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Going to try to add borates

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    Quote Originally Posted by Brentr
    I too just switched to borates (Team Mule 20)this past weekend and my pH went up from 7.5 to 7.8 . I adjusted it back to 7.5 by adding muriatic acid. No swimming as it is too cold and I have not noticed any water color change however the pool has been kept up to TFP specs. 48 hrs later the pH drifted back up to 7.8 so I again adjusted it back to 7.5 . I am running the SWG and the FC is about 8. Would this cause the pH to drift upwards?? Borates test out at 50
    Hi Brent,

    Not the chlorine, but the SWG could be a contributing factor. I just noticed you have the same over-sized chlorinator that I have. The TCELL-15 is promoted for pools <= 40K gallons; it's almost too much cell for your pool (mine, too) and so you should consider setting the percentage lower. It doesn't need to work that hard in the winter to sustain sufficient chlorine, especially with no one swimming right now.

    If you added borax (not boric acid) to your pool the pH rise is quite expected. Did you happen to read through the thread discussing how to apply it? It must be incredibly basic to require the acid that is called for in that procedure. So, the fact that your pH is continuing to rise 48 hrs later isn't surprising. If you have a water feature running along with the pump, disable it for a few days. I doubt that you'll have to purposefully aerate to increase pH, but don't press your luck by adding too much acid at one time. At 50 ppm, you're done adding borax.

    I understand that the administrators of this forum put $1000 each into a cash fund each year and award the proceeds to anyone who adds borax to their pool and successfully resists coming on the forum to announce that their pool is “sparkling.” To my knowledge, they’ve never had to pay out. Good luck in the contest.

    Greg
    The pool is only 6 mths new and the plaster is still curing so this could be a contributer of the pH rising. I have noticed that the Ph was getting more stable prior to adding borax
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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