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Thread: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

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    Brentr's Avatar
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    Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    I have been reading about freeze protection and we get some nights where the temp is quite low. Where can I get a freeze protection sensor? Do they sell them at Home Depot or Lowes? I have a standard Intermatic timer in a metal case with a dial that I set for on /off for the pump. I think it is model T-104R. Can I add one to this timer or do I have to buy a new timer with one in it?
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    Quote Originally Posted by Brentr
    I have been reading about freeze protection and we get some nights where the temp is quite low. Where can I get a freeze protection sensor? Do they sell them at Home Depot or Lowes? I have a standard Intermatic timer in a metal case with a dial that I set for on /off for the pump. I think it is model T-104R. Can I add one to this timer or do I have to buy a new timer with one in it?
    I just thought that the 'freeze protection sensor' was an air temperature gauge used by a controller. If the air temp is at or below X degrees C° or F° a switch would activitate the pump/filter.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    polyvue, I would like to add or upgrade my intermatic timer to incorporated a freeze protection sensor. Currently we do not have freeze protection and I am looking for an inexpense way to have some protections, ie turn my pump on when the temp get to freezing. I hope that I have explained correctly
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    Hey Brent,

    Check out some of the products listed in the following link. Might be what you're looking for...

    http://www.thefind.com/garden/info-circ ... n-controls
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    You can replace the guts of your existing Intermatic timer with the mechanism of one that incorporates the freeze protection capability. This is an example:

    http://www.poolplaza.com/P-INT-301-1254-T.html

    I can't be sure if this is the right one for you because I don't know what you have, but it will work in a standard size Intermatic box to control a single 240V pump. The alternative is to add the freeze protection separately and keep your timer. The part you buy costs about the same, because it includes a new case while leaving out the timer, and involves a lot more labor, as well. If there is a spa, your timer may be more complicated, but you can get the upgraded mechanisms for those, too.

    Obviously, whoever puts this in needs to be qualified to do so.
    Current: 28,000G 18'x36' I/G AnthonySylvan Plaster; Waterway 60 sq.ft. DE Filter; 1.0hp x 1.65 SF Two-Speed (B2982) WhisperFlo; 2004-Present
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    I have been reading other blogs regarding freeze protection and I am still wondering if I should upgrade my timer to include freeze protection sensor. We in Jacksonville an get some nights in the low 30's however it always warm back up in the day. All the pipes are 1.5 to 2 inch size and it is salt water. How long does it take to freeze water and at what temperature? Is it necessary for my area??? Can I just put a blanket over my pump area to insulate and protect from freezing??? I have attached a pic of my pump area. It is located on the west side of the house so there is no morning sun and the northeasters breezes hit this side of the house.
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    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    Hey Brent -
    For the few days that it freezes in N Florida, I install an extra set of timer trippers and start running the pump for the few hours that it dips below freezing. Usually it's something like 5 a.m. to 9 a.m. I don't really think it's a very big deal around here - les than seven or eight days a year.
    18k gal inground, everbrite finish, 505 sq ft; 1.5 hp two speed whisperflow; rheem 5100ti 100k btu heat pump; 3 sheer descent falls; DE filter; swg (cell out and using trichlor for now)

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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    Brent,

    I think there is virtually no chance that your pipes would freeze given your weather conditions. I have much harsher weather here where temperatures have droped to as low as 26 degrees for several hours and I still do not use freeze protection. It takes fairly low temperatures over long periods of time before pipes will even start to freeze. I really don't think you have anything to worry about. But if you want to take some precaution, a much cheaper solution would be to tarp the equipment pad and put a 60 watt bulb under it. This will keep the equipement temperature above freezing which is all that is needed.
    Mark
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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    The presence of chlorine, calcium and other constituents in pool water should lower the freezing point to below 32°F, the commonly accepted point at which water freezes at sea level (0' elevation.) Those who add salt to their pools (whether or not they have a SWG) or have high levels of TDS have even less to worry about regarding freezing pool water. My [very modest] understanding of this process is that the salts interfere with the conjoining of hydrogen and oxygen; I believe the extended quote (see below) also states this. What I don't know is how much these salts affect the freezing point.

    The following explanation, from a grad student writing in 1998, is expressed very clearly. (Admittedly, Ms Benison has dropped a zero from the stated salinity of ocean water--which I understand to be roughly 35,000 ppm, but I think her points are still valid.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy Counter Benison, grad student, Geology, University of Kansas
    Salt lowers the temperature at which water freezes and melts. Pure water, H2O, freezes (and melts) at 0°C (32°F). But the more "salt" (any elements or compounds carried by the water in solution, such as Na (sodium), Ca (calcium), Cl (chloride), and SO4 (sulfate)) in water, the lower its freezing point. For example, seawater, which has approximately 3500 parts per million "salt" (including Na, Ca, Cl, SO4, Mg, K, and CO3), will freeze (and melt) at -2.2°C. A water with extreme salinity such as very salty lake waters at Death Valley, California (approximately 300,000 parts per million "salt") may freeze and melt at temperatures as low as -20 - -30°C! Because salt lowers the freezing point depression, it is added to icy roads in order to melt the ice.

    If anyone here has a firmer, or different, understanding of this I hope they will post it.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    WOW Thank you for your input and a sigh of relief. No-mas what part of florida are you located? We are in North Jacksonville near the airport and it is tipically 5-10 degrees cooler her compared to Jacksonville proper. I will get a couple more of trip switches and have them ready to install when we are expected to have cooler weather. I guess a blanket or tarp of some sort may be a good idea also. The biggest worry was the heat pump, however from what I can tell the water cylinder it attaches to is very large probably about 4inchs in diameter.
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    As I noted in this thread, the freezing point depression effect of 3000 ppm salt is negligible at around 0.3ºF meaning that the freezing point is lowered by only 0.3ºF so not even 1 degree.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    Hey Brent -
    Time to reset your timer - I forgot last night, but set it for 4 -9 a.m. I'm in Mandarin, btw. Keep warm these next few days.

    I'm certain our northern friends feel no pity for us as we suffer through our few hours per day of freezing weather... last time I complained to a midwesterner about the weather, they told me they hadn't seen weather above freezing in several weeks. We're spoiled
    18k gal inground, everbrite finish, 505 sq ft; 1.5 hp two speed whisperflow; rheem 5100ti 100k btu heat pump; 3 sheer descent falls; DE filter; swg (cell out and using trichlor for now)

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    Re: Freeze protection sensor to add to Intermatic T-104R

    Thanks no-mas I set the timer to come on at 3am and to turn off at 8am. I am looking at the temp and it is showing 30deg. I am sure it is a bit warmer where you are in Manderin as you are closer to the river. I am near the airport off Duval road where the temp should be a few degrees warmer. Just for a test I put out a water bottle filled with water and it has not frozen
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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