Whats a good pump run time for a 12,000 gal pool?

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Davegvg said:
A lot of things arent the way they used to be.

5-10 years ago not may people cared about cutting the pump run time by a few hours or even half, because we didnt have sky high electricity rates and tiered electric bills with smart meters. Global warming enviro nonsense has driven everyone to find more cost effective methods of living with their pools.

Now we have 2 speed pumps, multispeed pumps, variable speed pumps,variable flow pumps and laws in Kalifornia that tell us what we can and cant build a new pool with.

We have salt chlorinators everywhere, better heat pumps and much more solar. all of these things require a certain flow, and the old standby of one full water change per pump run still works today.

with a modern pool today A flow meter isnt a luxury- its a necessity. If you have a 12 inch run of pipe you can put it in. Will it be 100% accurate? they never are anyway, but will you get a readable rounded off number that reflects a reality you can plan pump timing around around? absolutely.

I dont know of a cheaper way to set my own pump speed and base my timing and even a flowmeter that's not 100% accurate is waaay better than a guess.

for under 100 bones- its a no brainer.

The bluewhites are liquid filled and very easy to read at least on my set up and the ones Ive had before.
Ive posted two videos already and will post a third showing the flowmeter and its stability.

Here's a vid of my setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYN92oAcPgc

You can guess, or you can know.

Davegvg
Click to expand...

our electricity rates have always been high on the island. they are even higher now though. we get power from 2 diesel generators.

No one has solar pool heater systems yet.

Most if not all my clients are wealthy 2nd home owners. but they still don't want to waste electric. however I don't think they are thinking about being that accurate to save a few dollars. the reason I doubt they would pay to have a flow meter installed. they'd just say set if for so many hours. and I'd have to figure a run time that would be on the safe side. sure probably will cost a few dollars more to run but better to have more run time than needed.
 
Davegvg said:
Erring on the side of caution is never an unsafe alternative - just a little more expensive.

let us know how the black stain problem works out

davegvg
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its going away. the shallow end is pristine clean. :party: just got some in the deep end left to kill and have shocked that area with 4 gallons of bleach (I think 3%...cheap bleach).
 
my mistake it is actually a 15,000 gal pool. I measured it the right way and used a measuring tape.

I got the info on how to calculate pool size in gallons from the Hayward site...
http://www.haywardnet.com/pdfs/Pump_filter_sizing.pdf

mine is the first pool shape. I followed the info on calculating and got this number: 15,491.25 gallons. I took off 491.25 for the steps and sit down step in the shallow end. figured I'd round it to 15,000.

I found out some other stuff:
pipe size: 2"
pump: 1hp 115/230v 3,450rpm
and I believe the pump is made by A.O. Smith Corp in Mexico. there is a number on the top which reads: UST 1102 (maybe the model?)

Unfortunately I see the algae in the shallow end which was cleared is coming back. I didn't pour bleach on that area as I figured it was gone. the other areas in the deep end are going away. I poured 4 gallons of bleach on that area. I really do now believe in CYA! Can't wait to get the Taylor K2006 Dec 5th.

Till then maybe I should drain 50% of the pool water (owner has well water) and refill. also take the opportunity to backwash and open the filter up and clean inside.

Then I can try shocking again. Maybe with Cal Hypo so that it can sit on the bottom. mix it with water in a bucket and pour over the algae. I have a gunite pool with painted marcite. I hear gunite pools like CH @ 250-350
 
IslandPool said:
my mistake it is actually a 15,000 gal pool. I measured it the right way and used a measuring tape.I got the info on how to calculate pool size in gallons from the Hayward site... http://www.haywardnet.com/pdfs/Pump_filter_sizing.pdf

I've seen this doc before, a pretty good primer; but pools are notoriously difficult to measure precisely. Unless you have a perfectly rectangular or circular pool with no steps or coves, an estimate is all you'll be able to get. Some folks put a volume gauge (flow) on their hose and fill the pool from 0 gallons to tile-line but even that depends on the accuracy of the gauge, etc. Fortunately, unless you're trying to measure a spa the fact that a pool holds many thousands of gallons makes a close estimate acceptable when testing and treating.

mine is the first pool shape. I followed the info on calculating and got this number: 15,491.25 gallons. I took off 491.25 for the steps and sit down step in the shallow end. figured I'd round it to 15,000.

I found out some other stuff:
pipe size: 2"
pump: 1hp 115/230v 3,450rpm
and I believe the pump is made by A.O. Smith Corp in Mexico. there is a number on the top which reads: UST 1102 (maybe the model?)

Except for the horsepower designation, you're describing the motor that drives the pump, not the pump itself: 3,450 rpm motors are ubiquitous (very common.) Since you've shown yourself willing to get into this subject in attempting to size the equipment, you should know that pumps are normally assigned a Service Factor (SF) and to estimate the flow rate you'll need this add'l piece of information. The pump may also have a value assigned to Braking Horse Power (or Total HP); that would be the product, or result of the multiplicands HP and SF. KWIM?


Unfortunately I see the algae in the shallow end which was cleared is coming back. I didn't pour bleach on that area as I figured it was gone. the other areas in the deep end are going away. I poured 4 gallons of bleach on that area. I really do now believe in CYA! Can't wait to get the Taylor K2006 Dec 5th.

Till then maybe I should drain 50% of the pool water (owner has well water) and refill. also take the opportunity to backwash and open the filter up and clean inside.

Then I can try shocking again. Maybe with Cal Hypo so that it can sit on the bottom.

I don't know, IslandPool. Sounds dangerous to me. Why not try the tried and true approach? Start here and pose your questions in context of this advice.

mix it with water in a bucket and pour over the algae. I have a gunite pool with painted marcite. I hear gunite pools like CH @ 250-350
Click to expand...
 
polyvue said:
IslandPool said:
my mistake it is actually a 15,000 gal pool. I measured it the right way and used a measuring tape.I got the info on how to calculate pool size in gallons from the Hayward site... http://www.haywardnet.com/pdfs/Pump_filter_sizing.pdf

I've seen this doc before, a pretty good primer; but pools are notoriously difficult to measure precisely. Unless you have a perfectly rectangular or circular pool with no steps or coves, an estimate is all you'll be able to get. Some folks put a volume gauge (flow) on their hose and fill the pool from 0 gallons to tile-line but even that depends on the accuracy of the gauge, etc. Fortunately, unless you're trying to measure a spa the fact that a pool holds many thousands of gallons makes a close estimate acceptable when testing and treating.

mine is the first pool shape. I followed the info on calculating and got this number: 15,491.25 gallons. I took off 491.25 for the steps and sit down step in the shallow end. figured I'd round it to 15,000.

I found out some other stuff:
pipe size: 2"
pump: 1hp 115/230v 3,450rpm
and I believe the pump is made by A.O. Smith Corp in Mexico. there is a number on the top which reads: UST 1102 (maybe the model?)

Except for the horsepower designation, you're describing the motor that drives the pump, not the pump itself: 3,450 rpm motors are ubiquitous (very common.) Since you've shown yourself willing to get into this subject in attempting to size the equipment, you should know that pumps are normally assigned a Service Factor (SF) and to estimate the flow rate you'll need this add'l piece of information. The pump may also have a value assigned to Braking Horse Power (or Total HP); that would be the product, or result of the multiplicands HP and SF. KWIM?


Unfortunately I see the algae in the shallow end which was cleared is coming back. I didn't pour bleach on that area as I figured it was gone. the other areas in the deep end are going away. I poured 4 gallons of bleach on that area. I really do now believe in CYA! Can't wait to get the Taylor K2006 Dec 5th.

Till then maybe I should drain 50% of the pool water (owner has well water) and refill. also take the opportunity to backwash and open the filter up and clean inside.

Then I can try shocking again. Maybe with Cal Hypo so that it can sit on the bottom.

I don't know, IslandPool. Sounds dangerous to me. Why not try the tried and true approach? Start here and pose your questions in context of this advice.

mix it with water in a bucket and pour over the algae. I have a gunite pool with painted marcite. I hear gunite pools like CH @ 250-350
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on pumps. much appreciated. :cool:

I think you are right about it being dangerous. I really need to get all the readings so I know exactly whats going on with this pool instead of guessing. However I get the test kit Dec 5th so I need to keep the algae at bay until then. I will shock again with bleach. this time I'll make sure I buy a bleach that has the strength % on it like "Clear Pool". btw the water is looking great. nice and clear.

Thanks again for the advice. :goodjob:
 
PoolGuyNJ said:
Calculating Head Loss:

Most pumps have 2 drain plugs, on one the suction side and one one the return side.

There are available gauges that, when screwed in the suction side of a pump, will tell you in inches of mercury, how much suction there is. Thread size is usually 1/4" MIP, just like a filter's pressure gauge. A decent plumbing supply will have them and they are not expensive.

Scott
PoolGuyNJ
Click to expand...

Hey Scott, :) (see picture below)

The only drain I can see, on my pump, has only 2.5 inches between the impeller and the pump pot. I'm thinking that drain is pressure side. The drain is below the impeller on front side. The only other drain is on the pump pot. Wouldn't this be considered the suction side drain? The impeller is about 12" or so in diameter. It's the style where the pump pot and impeller look like two distinct parts.

I certainly don't have 12" of straight pipe before the pump inlet. The only place I have that much room on the suction side is where the two lines, 1.5" each (skimmer and MD) come out of ground and meet at the old, "Jandy" 3-way valve. The pipe leaving the valve is 2". The 2" pipe from valve to pump pot is about 5.5" long.

Any suggestions for placement of a suction side gauge? Pumping station below grade.

gg=alice

Pumpkt3gif.jpg
 
Strange, I have never seen a pool pump not have one on the suction side. It's usually on the front, down low or on the side, down low of the pump basket housing.

Your .sig says Centurio 1.5 HP pump. I suspect it's a Centurion Motor. I was unable to find a Centurio pump. If it's just a typo, then let us know which pump you have.

Scott
 
PoolGuyNJ said:
Strange, I have never seen a pool pump not have one on the suction side. It's usually on the front, down low or on the side, down low of the pump basket housing.

Your .sig says Centurio 1.5 HP pump. I suspect it's a Centurion Motor. I was unable to find a Centurio pump. If it's just a typo, then let us know which pump you have.

Scott
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott. You are right. The motor is a Centurio. I don't know the mfg. of the actual pump but it is similar to the diagram. Looking at pump so basket is in front with impeller and then motor going towards rear, there is one drain plug on the pump basket housing at the front side, towards bottom, that looks like it might be 1/4" screw. The other plug is in the impeller body casing, at the bottom, in front viewing as above. That is the one I'm thinking is pressure side drain. I'll check to see if I can find any markings. I'll take a picture but not sure when I'll get it posted.

gg=alice
 
geekgranny said:
The motor is a Centurio. I don't know the mfg. of the actual pump but it is similar to the diagram.
Click to expand...
When I googled Centurio 1.5 HP uprated, this came up...

http://www.polytecpools.com/aosmith-cen ... -6482.html

It's probably attached to a Hayward (or other brand name) pump. Maybe there's a tag with maker and/or serial number on the pump housing?
 

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It look very much like this pump Pentair Challenger Energy Efficient Pump seen here, 2nd pump down.

http://www.bestbuypoolsupply.com/pentairpump.html

It is very quiet relatively speaking.

EDIT] Can't find any identification. The motor bolts on to the pump with a square plate, four bolts, and the pump basket bolts on to the pump with smaller square plate, but similar, with four bolts.

I'm not sure how old it is. I think I've had the motor replaced at least once. Pump basket once. Several pump basket, see through, screw on tops, Pump.... I'm not sure. As far as I know, when we moved in '86 everything was original from build in '81. Maybe had some "work" done to pump once or twice but not sure about replacement.

[end edit]
 
The plug on the pump basket housing is the suction side one that a vacuum gauge can be connected to. Between that and the filter's pressure gauge, you can get a reasonable calculation of the total head loss using the formula I stated earlier. Compare it to the pump curve for your pump and you'll have a pretty close idea of what your flow is at that time.

Scott
 
PoolGuyNJ said:
The plug on the pump basket housing is the suction side one that a vacuum gauge can be connected to. Between that and the filter's pressure gauge, you can get a reasonable calculation of the total head loss using the formula I stated earlier. Compare it to the pump curve for your pump and you'll have a pretty close idea of what your flow is at that time.

Scott
Click to expand...

Super Duper. Thanks Scott. Yea :party:
 
PoolGuyNJ said:
Most pumps have 2 drain plugs, on one the suction side and one one the return side.

There are available gauges that, when screwed in the suction side of a pump, will tell you in inches of mercury, how much suction there is. Thread size is usually 1/4" MIP, just like a filter's pressure gauge. A decent plumbing supply will have them and they are not expensive.
Scott
PoolGuyNJ
Click to expand...

I'm looking for a gauge as you describe. The only ones I can find, on Internet, are the ones that attach via hole in pipe and then clamped. Any suggestions where to find one to order?

Thanks, gg=alice
 
Another thing to consider here (especially for the summer) is what the salt system is rated for. Manufacturers of salt systems rate their systems based on the unit running @ 100% output 24/7. So during the summer a 6 hour run time would probably not be good if the system is only rated for 12,000 gallons (there are a few smaller sized systems out there like this). It is also not good for the cell to constantly run the system @ 100% output.
 
So if we go back to the beginning of the thread..

1. 6 hours of pump time was likely not nearly enough given the pool is seemingly 15K+ not 12K and experiencing recurring water quality issues.

2. We dont know how much the pump actually pumps per minute/hour so we can only guess as to an appropriate run time.

3. We cant tell how much backpressure in the system because the gauge needs replacing so if the system were partially obstructed,(say a childs small ball or other small non biodegradable object) or had underground 1.5" pipe restrictions or maybe a repair - we really wouldn't know at this stage.

The recurring/ ongoing water quality problems could be compounded by lack of flow and short run times.
Ive had the best results when dealing with water issues when the pump is running 24/7 and pressure rise monitored as the dead gunk gets filtered out.

When you shocked did you brush down the whole surface?
I find if I skip this step or perform it less than vigorously my shock results are much weaker and I do it around dusk so the sunlight doesnt take a % off the chlorine.

Can you get an independent sample of your water run on the island?



Davegvg
 
geekgranny said:
PoolGuyNJ said:
If you google search vacuum pressure gauge, you will find them.

Scott
PoolGuyNJ
Click to expand...

Perfect :whoot: Thanks

gg=alice
Click to expand...

Here is one, of many, gauges. I don't know which to choose but I assume that I would want a liquid filled. Will gladly accept recommendations. :)

http://www.drillspot.com/products/108044/Ashcroft_63_3005PHL_60_Pressure_Gauge

Big question. The gauges have a connection size of "1/4" NPT" and is what looks like brass. The drain plug on the pump basket is 1/4". In the past I've frequently encountered problems linking plastic screw fittings to brass as the screw spacings are different, like on hoses and dripper system attachments. Will the 1/4" NPT for sure fit in the screw hole in the pump basket or will I need an adapter?

Thanks, gg=alice
 

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