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Thread: Pool Cleaner Types

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    Pool Cleaner Types

    Yeah I know I know. I have read the PC School section.

    However. Still some questions.

    Some of you may know me as the guy who was coerced into 't mooky pool. I am still struggling to get it it free of sediment, and I know a pool cleaner is a must.

    First question. If I get a simple suction type (which it says will struggle with a 20,000 gal pool), what to I get for $600-700 that I don't get for $300? This was not covered in the article I read.

    Similar question for one that has its own pump.

    Second. My pool has a real non-skid finish. Should I really be looking at a wheeled version rather than a skirted version? I am assuming that the wheeled ones do not do the sides of the pool?

    Third. If I get one that has its own bag, (whether self-powered or not), rather than one that passes through the filter, are there ones that have a reasonable filter bag size? I am hoping that once I get this puppy into shape, my blanket will help a lot, but we have a LOT of trees about and I don't want to be having to watch an "automatic" vacuum like a hawk all the time. I like the idea of one that has its own filter, because I reckon I prefer using a hose and a bit of shaking to back-flushing at huge rates.

    There are probably more, but that will do for now!
    Nick
    Perth Western Australia
    ~20,000 US liquid Gal (~80000 L) inground concrete, pretty much oblong roughly 11m * 8m and 1.2 - 1.8+ m deep SWCG, 24" Sand filter, Hurlcon 1hp pump

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    My .02: Get a wheeled unit so that the bottom does not get all chewed up, and if you have alot of debris, do not get a bag unit. The bag will fill up and the cleaner will tip over! Most units have all replaceable parts, so get a good one and it should last you a long time.

    Here's the one I am currently a fan of: www.thepoolcleaner.com. Check it out and see if it might work for you.

    Bruce

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    [EDIT] I see you have added some stats on your pool. [end edit]

    Nick, I'm really short on time but would like to at least gather up some of my posts links about the various cleaners and conditions I have. Hopefully I'll be able to do that tomorrow during the games. See my sig for the cleaners I currently have. I do use all three along with the Pool Blaster (Buster). A bit extreme, I know, but all three have their pros and cons. My environment is extreme too. I'll be thinking about the one I would choose if I could only keep one.

    Do you have a lot of sand and/or silt. That can make a difference. Also, if you have a deep end some of the cleaners are not powerful enough to make it up the incline from deep end especially the lower end self contained "robotic", "automatic" cleaners.

    Leaves clogging up the skimmer and pump pot from main drain can be an issue if you use a cleaner that needs to have the pool running while it is in use. Same for suction with sand and silt filling up the filter pretty quickly especially if filter is undersized. Many people put a leaf catcher in-line with the suction cleaners. If I didn't use one my pump pot would fill up very quickly. Anyone who has had to clean out the impeller on a pump, from bits of leaves, tree "needles", and other clogging bits getting pulled through an overly filled up pump pot, knows how critical it is to keep the pump pot as free of debris as possible.

    There are tips and tricks to use for all of the cleaners that help prevent some of the above issues.

    What shape is your pool? Surface? Pump hp? Pipe sizing? Size and type of filter? Is someone at home to monitor things? Are you gone for extended periods? As you can see there are lots of factors to consider.

    My filter is undersized but replacing it soon. I have lots of leaves so use two Pool Skims but had to put flow reducers on two of the returns to get enough water to the Pool Skims.

    Gotta run for now.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by simicrintz
    My .02: Get a wheeled unit so that the bottom does not get all chewed up, and if you have alot of debris, do not get a bag unit. The bag will fill up and the cleaner will tip over! Most units have all replaceable parts, so get a good one and it should last you a long time.

    Here's the one I am currently a fan of: http://www.thepoolcleaner.com. Check it out and see if it might work for you.

    Bruce
    I have the Jacuzzi Tracker 4-wheel, that is essentially the same as the POOLVERGNUEGEN The Pool Cleaner but $100 or more less in price. My main complaint, and it has nothing to do with the cleaner, is that my filter is way undersized for having everything going to the filter. I like it a lot and it does go up the walls and has no trouble getting up my steep incline from deep end. With lots of leaves an in-line leaf catcher is essential. I have the Pentair large catcher, $65. The Tracker will get a lot more use when I get my new, much larger filter installed. It does an excellent job on the sand/silt and leaves, but I have to occasionally clear a leaf or two out of the scoops which isn't a big deal.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by geekgranny
    What shape is your pool? Surface? Pump hp? Pipe sizing? Size and type of filter? Is someone at home to monitor things? Are you gone for extended periods?
    These are good questions that can help you determine which cleaner to get. I think Alice wouldn't mind if I added one or two more: What is the difference in depth between the shallow and and the deep end? Does the pool have a suction line or return line for its existing cleaner?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick
    First question. If I get a simple suction type (which it says will struggle with a 20,000 gal pool), what to I get for $600-700 that I don't get for $300?

    Prestige, of course. On pressure-side cleaners, the extra bucks can often be attributed to the booster pump. Not sure about suction-side cleaners. Whether you need a booster pump depends on whether there is sufficient pressure (PSI) at the return.

    Second. My pool has a real non-skid finish. Should I really be looking at a wheeled version rather than a skirted version? I am assuming that the wheeled ones do not do the sides of the pool?

    See Bruce's response. Wheeled pressure-side cleaners w/booster pumps have no problems climbing the sides of a pool. My Polaris would climb out and go fishing if it weren't tethered by the water supply line.

    Third. If I get one that has its own bag, (whether self-powered or not), rather than one that passes through the filter, are there ones that have a reasonable filter bag size?

    Like geekgranny suggested, that depends on the amount of leaves and other debris it must collect during its run. Only after storms do I need to change the filter bag more than once every few days.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    I'm leaning towards my Polaris 280 as the one, of three cleaners I have, as the one I would keep if I could only have one. But I won't be totally sure about that until I use the vacuum side Tracker 4x with a larger DE filter.

    This summer I purchased a couple of aftermarket bags for the P-280 that I am pretty pleased with.

    http://www.aquawerx.com/prod01.htm

    I got the AW-28 MEGA, All Purpose 280 Aftermarket Replacement Filter Bag, *Ultra Capacity Mega Bag, *PATENT PENDING. It has larger capacity than the regular 280 bag, about the size of the 280 leaf bag, but catches smaller particles, like sand, than the regular 280 bag does. The fabric is almost as fine as the 280 silt/sand bag, just a tiny bit coarser and does very well with sand and has room for more leaves and larger debris than the 280 regular and sand/silt bags. The 280 leaf bag, although having more capacity than the other two 280 bags, does not filter sand or silt but it is great for when the pool is filling with leaves constantly. I have three (I think I have four but can't find one) of the 280 leaf bags. When the leaves are coming down really fast one fills in about 30 minutes. A huge advantage for the pressure side cleaners with bags is that if they overfill, you are not going to have any damage to the system. The Polaris just keeps moving, moving water through it, but doesn't pick much of anything up.

    There are no bags, that I can find, for the pressure Polaris, that will catch the finest silt (mud). I'm thinking of making my own as a trial.

    The Aquabot type automatic/robotic cleaners do have a sand/silt bag that does catch the silt. But as the bag gets lined with the silt, it's moving and filter abilities become restricted. The Aquabot fine bag does have a few 1/4 inch, plastic ringed holes in the bag to let excess pressurize water out so you aren't going to ruin the 'bot when the bag gets too full but it's abilities become diminished. The Aquabot regular mesh bag is a little finer than the Polaris leaf bag. The Aquabot regular bag does pick up leaves but doesn't have nearly the capacity of the Polaris leaf bag, although it is big but it has to fit around the internal pump so its size is diminished. When my "Aquabot" 'bot, using regular mesh bag, gets to a certain point with leaves, it can't make it up the steep slope from deep end so it stays in the deep end while the shallow end continues to fill with leaves. Pressure side, P-280 doesn't have these limitations.

    Suction cleaner, with in-line leaf catcher, is great with fine sand/silt but the limiting factors are how much fine debris it has to pick up and the size of you filter AND has to have a certain amount of suction from pumping station to work and pick up. The in-line larger leaf catchers have a pretty good capacity but are much more hassle to open and clean out than the simple, quick process of pulling the Polaris out of pool, and emptying or exchanging the bag. When the in-line leaf catcher for the Aquabot type 'bot is full of leaves it is designed to let the water pass by the catcher so you won't have issues with stopping the suction to the pumping station. Some of the suction cleaners do better with leaves than others. My Tracker 4-wheeled, has big wheels but I'm sure my 13 yr old rough plaster will do a pretty good number on the scoops, pretty quickly. I haven't used it enough to know the wear rate but they are pretty easily replaced. Leaves sometimes get stuck in the scoops. I haven't used it, yet, in pool when the leaves completely cover the bottom. That's P-280s job and he does it well as long as I'm here to change out the bags.

    Maybe more later. gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Whew! Thanks for that! So that narrows it down to two main contenders, with just a choice of bags.

    Interesting about the suction vs pressure side versions, where the pump cannot run dry if the bag gets clogged.

    How is a pressure side one plumbed?

    More to think about.
    Nick
    Perth Western Australia
    ~20,000 US liquid Gal (~80000 L) inground concrete, pretty much oblong roughly 11m * 8m and 1.2 - 1.8+ m deep SWCG, 24" Sand filter, Hurlcon 1hp pump

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick
    How is a pressure side one plumbed?
    For models without booster pumps, it's just a 1" or 1½" PVC line that runs from the return side of the filter to a sweeper connection fitting at the pool. If a booster pump is added, it's also situated on the return side of the filter. Connected (typically) by ¾" flex hose: filter » booster pump » pool return line. Other configurations are possible, using a suction-side (pre-filter) water supply and dedicated plumbed filter. Note, however, that I'm not an expert ... there may be further information in Pool School "Hydraulics 101" etc that provides more detail on plumbing.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    OK. Thanks for that. So it replaces the "eyeballs" that are in the pool.
    Nick
    Perth Western Australia
    ~20,000 US liquid Gal (~80000 L) inground concrete, pretty much oblong roughly 11m * 8m and 1.2 - 1.8+ m deep SWCG, 24" Sand filter, Hurlcon 1hp pump

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Here's most, but not, all of my cleaning "crew".
    Left to right Jacuzzi Tracker 4X - Pool Blaster (Buster) - iRobot Vero 300 (like the Aquabot Turbo T-Jet - Polaris 280 - Leaf Catcher (Eater)
    White 1/2 PVC leaning against R rail is used to get pool water samples without getting hand/arm in pool.


    Bags for Polaris 280. Going left to right coarsest to finest.


    Bags for Aquabot. Going left to right coarsest to finest. Middle one is aftermarket "ScumBag". They are disposable but I rinsed them out and then throw in washer, like I do with the Aquabot silt bag to clear out the really fine silt. Wash on cold/gentle, with low spin; no detergents but I do use some white vinegar.


    Regular Aquabot bag.


    Aftermarket "ScumBag"


    Very fine sand/silt Aquabot bag.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    I forgot the PoolSkims, two, one on each side of shallow end.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by geekgranny
    Here's most, but not, all of my cleaning "crew".
    What? That's it?

    Where's the crew?
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    HAH! Crikey! Have you ever tried running them all at once, or holding races?
    Nick
    Perth Western Australia
    ~20,000 US liquid Gal (~80000 L) inground concrete, pretty much oblong roughly 11m * 8m and 1.2 - 1.8+ m deep SWCG, 24" Sand filter, Hurlcon 1hp pump

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    Quote Originally Posted by geekgranny
    Here's most, but not, all of my cleaning "crew".
    What? That's it?

    Where's the crew?


    Oh, you mean this crew.

    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick
    HAH! Crikey! Have you ever tried running them all at once, or holding races?
    Not these guys but I have lots with my Crews, Gangs, Packs of iRobot 'bots.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Here are some other required "tools".


    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Oh, you mean this crew.
    Just between you and me... I'd consider letting go the furrier crew members. I somehow just don't think they'll be of much help.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    Re: Pool Cleaner Types

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    Oh, you mean this crew.
    Just between you and me... I'd consider letting go the furrier crew members. I somehow just don't think they'll be of much help.
    Oh yeah, they are vital. They keep me on toes and constantly alert. EVERYTHING is THEIR play toy to be crunched, shredded, and strewn about. Of course they like the most expensive things best but cardboard is one of their favorites also. They really like pool cleaner bags too (in addition to the cleaners) . In the picture Jake Mastiff is only 6.5 months old. He can do a number on anything especially after the Doodles show him how to steal it first.

    They help me do everything.

    They aren't allowed in the spa any more as the spa bioslime got much worse and I got a nasty bladder infection. We started something really really bad letting them in. Now I have to put a gate at the top of spa steps.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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