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Thread: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Hi all,

    We started building our pool this summer and it is finished within the next few weeks! We are very excited and happy with the construction and the company. So, now we need to make preparations for maintenance, water etc.

    The pool is 6x12m, around 17000 gallons of water. The shallow end is 1,2m deep, the deep end is 1,5m deep. The surface is ceramic tiles, handmade. The pool will use an SWG.

    I did some testing of the tap water with my test kit that i ordered from this site:
    ph 7.5-7.6
    TA 80
    calsium 45 (the sample started going blue at 4 drops, and became bright blue at 5 drops)

    I have not tested for copper and iron, because the state water analysis center said they test water from our area often, and it never has copper or iron.

    Here are some pics from the process:

    [attachment=2:298vqp34]DSCN0133.JPG[/attachment:298vqp34]

    [attachment=1:298vqp34]DSCN0321.JPG[/attachment:298vqp34]

    [attachment=0:298vqp34]DSCN0444.JPG[/attachment:298vqp34]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlize
    So, now we need to make preparations for maintenance, water etc.

    The pool will use an SWG.

    I did some testing of the tap water with my test kit that i ordered from this site:
    ph 7.5-7.6
    TA 80
    calsium 450 (the sample started going blue at 4 drops, and became bright blue at 5 drops)
    Lovely pool... and tile. Thanks for putting up the photos.

    The Calcium level is a bit high, so if you plan to start-up with this water you may have to make some minor adjustments to TA and pH to strike the right balance. I don't know if you've had a chance to browse through any of the articles in Pool School but if you haven't, here are some to start with:



    Oh, and post more pictures when you get the chance!
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    We have read everything in the pool school, but will certainly revisit, great resource!

    Yes, we realize that the calcium is a bit high. Someone recommended to use rainwater to get it down.
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Charlize,

    calsium 450 (the sample started going blue at 4 drops, and became bright blue at 5 drops)
    That would be a CH result of 40-50 (drops x 10)

    It looks like you have excellent fill water to start with. Ph and TA are fine.

    Once the fill water is in, I would suggest using Clorox to chlorinate the pool until your SWG is up and running. You can probably add CYA prior to the SWG hookup as well but check with the PB to make sure.

    Very nice pool....Congratulations!!

    PS - At some point, you will need probably to add some Calcium to get it up around 300. New plaster pools generally add calcium to the water anyway, though, so I wouldn't be in a big hurry to add it now.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    ops, we misread the calsium test!

    great observation dave, thanks a lot.

    ok, this means the correct reading is 45, so its a totally different story. So much for the better.


    As for starting without salt, yes, we are considering that. one advice was to wait 60 days with adding salt, because the grout release a lot of lime in the beginning and thats not good if one adds salt at the same time. what do you guys think of this line of reasoning?
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    We always suggest waiting a minimum of 30 days, and preferably 60 days, to add salt to a plaster (or derivative) pool. I would imagine that the grout in the tile would have the same issues as plaster and would think waiting would be the best in your case as well.

    Nice looking pool

    Bruce

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    hi,

    the work is going great. We have decided to not put concrete around the pool, because the earth is so soft there. The reason is that the earth there is new, 0,5-1m in depth. so, we will put stone, the thai name is "si la laeng". Here is a picture of this kind of stone:

    http://www.baansuandecor.com/images/7oc ... C04857.JPG




    One question: what happens if one uses an swg from the start? We are not planning to, but want a reason if the PB thinks it doesnt matter.



    [attachment=0:3vi5x6zl]DSCN0443.JPG[/attachment:3vi5x6zl]

    [attachment=1:3vi5x6zl]DSCN0491.JPG[/attachment:3vi5x6zl]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    It could cause problems with your grout. I would wait 30 days, using tablets or liquid chlorine in the meantime. Then add the salt and turn on the swg. Be sure to monitor your levels in the meantime to prevent scale from building up on the surfaces.

    It's gonna be lovely
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    We had a meeting with the PB today. He said that he uses special grout that salt doesnt affect as much. also, he says he cleans very thoroughly before he starts the swg. in conclusion, he doesnt think there is a need to wait 30 days to start the swg.

    agree or not? if not, i could use some arguments.

    cheers,
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    As long as he gives a full warranty for his work and wants to start it up right away, then why not? IF he's willing to fix any potential issues that arise from not waiting, then that's his decision, right?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    As long as he gives a full warranty for his work and wants to start it up right away, then why not? IF he's willing to fix any potential issues that arise from not waiting, then that's his decision, right?
    On the other hand, waiting a month before adding salt isn't that great a burden I'd prefer to play it slow and safe and wait the month, using pucks and bleach to chlorinate, so that there is no chance of the salt damaging the surface (even if it's fully warrantied, you'd loose use of the pool while repairs are made and have wasted whatever chems you've added )

    Charlize, WELCOME TO TFP!!

    Your pic of the rocks isn't showing up However, you would want to hold off on pouring a concrete deck for at least 6 weeks for the ground properly compacts to support the deck (longer is better and soaking and compacting the filled area makes for a better base for the concrete) As a side note, I assume you'll have ladders and handrails, make sure the salt water can't damage them! (info available on request )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    What we might do is let the PB start everything like he wants with the swg, then we just turn it off when he is done. And then start it up again after one month. The benefit is that we would learn the swg from the PB, and likely wont hurt the pool.


    The plan is to not put concrete around at all actually, not now and not in the future. The reason is that we have found a stone we love. we just took some pics of the samples of the stones. The stones are very beautiful, and here in thailand its not that expensive to use stone like this. The plan is to put sand over the earth, and then the stone with no grout. The stones are so heavy that the PB thinks we dont need grout. There is also another benefit to this plan, we can later move and redesign the deck. But, if someone thinks doing this with no grout sounds silly, let me know (the plan isnt set in stone yet ).



    [attachment=1:1pw33yy7]DSCN0499.JPG[/attachment:1pw33yy7]

    [attachment=0:1pw33yy7]DSCN0501.JPG[/attachment:1pw33yy7]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Well....I'm pretty sure its not the operation of the SWG is the addition of Salt that would affect the grout.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    yes, of course. Silly, didnt think that one through. We need to think of another plan.
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Charlize's Avatar
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Things are going great, here are some pics:

    [attachment=2:a4rkx08c]DSCN0563.jpg[/attachment:a4rkx08c]
    32 is the flow rate on the sand filter, i guess this is cubic meter pr hour. The diameter is 34 inches. The swg controller is the box on the right side. The ground where the filter is standing is not completely level, is this a problem?


    [attachment=1:a4rkx08c]DSCN0559.JPG[/attachment:a4rkx08c]

    The stone for the deck is coming within the next few days. We went to the factory and bought directly from them.


    [attachment=0:a4rkx08c]DSCN0561.JPG[/attachment:a4rkx08c]

    The pump is 3 HP, because the filter etc is not on the same level as the pool, maybe 1m above.

    We have decided to take the PB's advice and start using the swg from the start. For us its ok, considering he is confident that it will not cause problems. its also hard for us to find concrete arguments against it, other than "some people say its not good for the grout". Maybe this is a bigger issue in pools where tiles are not used.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Whose pump are you using, and what is the gpm rating? Sounds way too big for your pool unless the flow rate is really low or you are running 3" plumbing

    Bruce

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    The pump is astralpool victoria plus, 3 hp. i will try to find the gpm. pipes are 2 inches. the pumproom is about 12meter from the pool, 1-1,5 meter higher.

    EDIT: I found some specs for the pump.

    34,000 l/h 2.20 kW (3 HP) 230v

    On the pump itself there are some numbers: 2,7 kw, 2780 rpm and 34 cubic meter pr hour.

    I cant find a gpm number.
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    Sawatdee and welcome to the best pool site on the web
    that filter could not be 32 cubic meters per hour it is probably 32 gal a minute which means that pump is way to big for that pool and filter, 1 hp is plenty. Running that pump 8 hours a day is going to cost you at least 2000 bt a month.[probably more]

    And also i would say that not to take everything thing the pb says as gospel

    Happy swims
    Frank from Phuket {pronouced pooket for our American friends ]
    Hello all from the land of smiles. Thailand. 5mx9mx1.5 63000L 16300 gall, pebbletex,
    pentair 1hp whisperflow, tagelus TA60 SF, swg monarch esc24 {a bit small for the tropics} 3 returns, 1 skimmer, 2 astral 100watt lights. Planned and built by me
    an AUSSIE expat living thailand for 18 years.

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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    ok frank, i will check out the filter again. will get back with the correct spec.

    yes, you are right, we cant trust the pb for everything. But when i talk with him i need arguments, not only opinions. I know this forums people and opinions are great and well founded, but we need to know the reason behind the opinion. If we dont, we have no way to learn these things and no way to talk to others in a fact based manner. without facts, it just becomes a pingpong game, where you same something, he says something, and then i must choose based on things that are unclear at best.

    for example, right now we need to write an email to the pb, about the pump. I need to write why i want to change it. I am sure he doesnt want to change it, so i need good arguments.

    for example:

    "I was given advice about the pump from several pool owners and builders. they say that the pump is too big for the pool and the filter. They say that it will use excessive power and ..... (dont know what to write here)."

    Sorry to be so obnoxious





    EDIT: i copied the spec sheet for the filter, its the one on the right side. Maybe i misinterpreted some numbers.

    [attachment=0:8arx29ey]specs filter small file.jpg[/attachment:8arx29ey]

    I am trying to read up on pumps now, in the pump subforum. its very complicated. i will probably understand it sometime, i just dont know when
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12x6 meters freeform, 1,2-1,5 meter deep, IG, ceramic tiles, 20000 gallons of water, SWG (hurlcon vx 11T, 42 g/h), 3 hp pump (astralpool victoria plus), sand filter (35in, flow rate: 32 cubic meter /h).

  20. Back To Top    #20
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    Re: Help us start up our new pool! - tiled 6x12m swg

    The short answer is that the smallest pump and the proper sized pipe will make for the most efficient pool. On commercial pools here, we work on a 6 hour turn over rate. To get that we take the gallons in the pool and divide by 360 (the minutes in 6 hours) to get the gpm flow rate. That tells you what size pump is needed. Pipe diameters also have flow rates associated with them, so they need to be sized accordingly as well. Length of run will affect pipe diameters also.

    Your pool may operate with a little as a 3/4 HP pump, but even the 1 HP will be much better than the 3 HP suggested. The 2 inch plumbing will work great for up to the 1 HP pump, but will be undersized for the 3 HP pump. Slow water movement also creates cleaner pools and better filtration. Trying to "ram" the water through with a 3 HP pump will not clean as well, and will cost more to run.

    Bruce

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