DIY remote wall switch for pool control

[lborne]

My pool / spa is 1 month old and already I am tired of having to walk out to the equipment pad in order to switch into spa mode, which consists of moving 2 valves and turning on the pump, heat and lights. I also have to go out there just to turn on the pump, (for example when I add chemicals not during the set run times), or to turn on the lights. I was too cheap to go for the automation systems the PB quoted at $2-3K, so have come up with a remote panel I can mount near the door going out to the pool. That will be phase one and then sometime in the future I may upgrade to computer control either by a BASIC stamp or PLC or etc.

I've already got the necessary contactors, power supplies, valve actuators and switches. I expect to begin wiring everything up in the next couple weeks and posting updates here.

I'm using a standard 12 hour in-wall spring timer (labeled T on my schematic) to run the pump. At first I was going to use a push button, but then decided it would be nice to be able to set it for a couple hours and not have to worry about remembering to turn it off. The digital timers need 120v to work and I'm only running 24v into the house.

I'm using a rocker switch to power the actuators to switch between spa and pool mode. I've already got that set up in the garage to check the right polarity for the actuators. Its a double pole, so I'm also using it to make sure the heat can't come on unless you are in spa mode, as I only have a spa heater and don't ever want it accidently heating the pool. I'm also going to wire it so the heat can not come on unless the pump is on.

The light and heat switches are DP illuminated push button switches, but I'm only using one pole.
The schematic does not show the switch lights wired correctly because I just did not have time to do it yet. But the rest of the circuit is good.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

[lborne]

Re: DIY remote wall switch for pool control - FINALLY COMPLETE

I finally had enough free time over the Christmas holidays to install my remote switch for the pool functions and can now share this project with everyone. I spent less than $300 including the actuators which I was able to get on ebay for $50 each. My wife did not want the control panel too visible since she thinks it is ugly, so I had to place it near some shelves where we keep to pool towels and such.

[attachment=2:2ad93frl]1.jpg[/attachment:2ad93frl]

I have a 2 hour mechanical timer that switches on a relay to the pump, a red button that turns on a relay for the heater -a small 11.5kW intended for the spa only, the green button turns the valve for the solar on or off until I hook up a computer and can then control it with a thermostat, a toggle switch to control two valve actuators that selects between SPA and POOL mode. Pool mode is where water returns to both spa and pool and the spa overflows into the pool. And finally I have two switches for turning on the spa and pool lights.
I have it wired such that the only way the heater can be turned on is if the pump is running AND the toggle is in spa mode. That way I don't accidently try to heat the entire pool with the small heater.

[attachment=1:2ad93frl]2.JPG[/attachment:2ad93frl]

You can see the three valve actuators - one for the inlet that selects between the spa drain or pool drain / skimmer / vac lines, another for the return - pool returns or spa jets, and finally one for the solar valve. The burried white tank is for the automatic acid dispenser. It needed to be at or below pool water level. And the device attached to the stainless hose is for filling the pool. It can be set to dispense a given number of gallons and then automatically shuts off. I only needed to forget the hose on once before I added that.

Finally, here is a photo of the electrical boxes.

[attachment=0:2ad93frl]3.JPG[/attachment:2ad93frl]

The only one I added was the one on the left with the red switch. Inside that box is the 24VAC transformer that powers the switch lights, the actuators and the relays, and the relay for the heater. I added a switch on the outside of the box so that I can turn everything off and manually move the actuators. I stuck the relay for the pump inside the pump timer box as there was plenty of room under the dial.

Eventually I hope to hook everything up to my computer for control via the internet and a wireless remote.

 

[New2Me]

Good Job!
You might ne interested in this link -

http://www.troublefreepool.com/diy-automated-controls-advice-solicited-t5708.html

when you go to automation. I got the hardware, but have only implemented the Arduino, haven't had the time/need to pursue the Linux/internet side yet. The Arduino is simple/cheap, and you could easily install a wireless control for it.
Good Luck, and Best Wishes!

 

[lborne]

Thanks for the link. I'd read that back when I was researching pool automation but it was good to read it again. I first needed something very simple for my wife. Since we do not have a separate pump for the spa, it meant she'd have to go out and turn valves, turn on the pump, turn on the heat, etc. And she did not want to have to figure out some kind of software, or boot up the computer, etc. So my plan is to be able to keep the switch station, but also be able to have a remote - possibly using my iPAQ which has bluetooth and WIFI.

 

[piku]

Hi,

I've updated this a bit. Under the home automation section of my website http://www.markduckworth.net.

 

[lborne]

piku (Mark),

Thanks for updating your site. I will eventually read all of it again when I am ready to go to the next phase. Although I am not sure I need too much more at this point. The purpose of my remote was to be able to turn valves and run the pump and heater without having to go outside to the equipment pad and manually do it. I know it looks like it is on an exterior wall, but it is really inside. It allows my wife to use the hot tub if I'm not there to change all the settings. And it eliminates costly mistakes if the wrong valves are accidently turned. The only thing I really want to automate next is the solar. That will require either purchasing a controller or making my own.

I do have to disagree with a couple issues you bring about under phase 4. First, the SWG I'm using is closer to $600 than $1000, and the cell should last more than a couple of years - I'm hoping for 5 years. Ideally, I'd like to be able to remotely control that too, but realistically, I only need to adjust it 2-3 times a year. Also, you only add hundreds of pounds of salt once. Then occasionally you throw in a 20#, $5 bag of salt - maybe 4 times a year. The liquidator has some major problems based on reviews I've seen on this site.

But I agree with you that I was wondering why not use liquid chlorine when I have to add acid manually pretty much every other day. I wanted to be able to go 2 weeks without doing anything to the pool. So I followed the directions I found here on an automatic acid dispenser. It has no moving parts, is easy, costs less than $30, and can go about 20 days before requiring a refill - and that is just because I am using a 7 gallon tank. Using a larger tank will obviously let me go longer before refilling. And since the acid is diluted, you are not introducing a high acid concentration directly into the pump. You then also have the dilution rate to help adjust how much acid to add to the pool. It did take some time to adjust, and will require tweaking a few times a year like the swg setting, but I can and have gone more than 2 weeks without having to do anything to the pool. Having a screen enclosure also lets me get away with not having to vacuum or empty the strainer basket.

Now, the next phase, or maybe more like phase XX might be to develop low cost sensors for reading chlorine and pH levels that don't require frequent calibration.

 

[Brentr]

lborne your are the man I may have to take a ride down to your place to check out your system Maybe one day I will conside some automation but for now I will have to go to the PUMP PUB (Yes this is just for polyvue :-D DW named the pool pad and we have a sign being made and chairs to put out so we can enjoy a work of art ) and manually adjust all the water features. Gets kind of tricky after a few cold ones

 

[polyvue]

Ideally, I'd like to be able to remotely control [the SWG] too, but realistically, I only need to adjust it 2-3 times a year.
[...]
Now, the next phase, or maybe more like phase XX might be to develop low cost sensors for reading chlorine and pH levels that don't require frequent calibration.

Regarding SWGs and desired frequency of calibration:

If you're only adjusting the SWG output 2 -3 times a year I think the environment for your pool in Vero Beach is unusually accommodating and perhaps has a low or very consistent bather load. In our area in the summer there are large temperature swings every day typically ranging from 55/60° F. in early morning to 100/105°F+ by afternoon. Lots of swimming in a single week, then none the following. This affects solar cover usage, which can be erratic regardless because of removal to regulate water temperature. So chlorine demand is all over the place. It's not unusual to have to tweak the cell output several times a week.

Acid additions, on the other hand, are far more consistent. Perhaps in conjunction with an ORP sensor, the chlorine and acid feeds could be automated successfully—defined tentatively as a system that enables fully unattended chemical control for 3 weeks, maintenance of pH and total chlorine within normal and safe ranges, incorporates a feedback control mechanism that is robust enough to apply adjustments to chems based on calculations that account for current and ideal saturation index value (the carbonate portion could be deduced from tables or entered periodically by user) and in all, requires 25% fewer human interventions over a specified period of time.

Though I’ve read of some serious design issues with commercial systems that attempt of all of this and more, it doesn’t really feel like we’re too far away from this ideal. And Hayward will be charging $199 for a 3 ft sensor wire ($299 if pin-striped!)

Also, you only add hundreds of pounds of salt once. Then occasionally you throw in a 20#, $5 bag of salt - maybe 4 times a year.

Don’t get much splash-out, do you? Last year my 14000 gallon pool took 360 lbs of the white stuff… 1 bag at a time!
(Net usage was closer to 285 lbs on account of a 20% drain/refill.) At $8.99 for a 40# bag, the annual cost was about $88.00 inc. sales tax.

 

[JasonLion]

Reasonably reliable PH sensors are available for prices that are acceptable, though not exactly low. FC sensors are an entirely different story. ORP sensors sometimes work well in specific pools, but are not reliable in others. Overall ORP is not reliable enough to depend on. The only other available FC sensor is very expensive.

On the other hand, it is quite possible to balance the water so that all levels remains stable for fairly long periods of time without any automation or sensors other than a standard SWG. Of course, no system is going to compensate for major storms (or swim parties) that overflow the pool, clog all the skimmers, and dump in enough debris to overwhelm any reasonable starting FC level.

Ignoring the occasional storm, swim party, or unpredictable use of a solar cover, by using a SWG and carefully balanced chemistry it is possible to get to the point where things remain stable for weeks at a time. I wouldn't try this with an unattended pool, and not everyone is able to get things this finely balanced, but the amount of effort can be gotten way way down with some advance planning. The only thing I do daily these days is a quick visual inspection, which is far more like fun than it is like work.

 

[polyvue]

Maybe one day I will conside some automation but for now I will have to go to the PUMP PUB (Yes this is just for polyvue :-D DW named the pool pad and we have a sign being made and chairs to put out so we can enjoy a work of art) and manually adjust all the water features.

Heh, heh! Thanks for the tribute. Had to read your post several times before I got it. Do I get the seat of honor at the dedication? Guess that would be one foot on the pad, another at suction, an arm around the filter and my rump on... well, where else could it go?

Of course, no system is going to compensate for major storms (or swim parties) that overflow the pool, clog all the skimmers, and dump in enough debris to overwhelm any reasonable starting FC level.

Oh, you're no fun... Though it’s hard to picture an automated mechanism capable of removing tree branches, umbrella poles or a dead muskrat from the bottom of a pool, the system could have downloaded a weather report, closed the automated cover when the wind speed exceeded 10 knots and sent a text message to the pool owner, who is mountaineering in Italy:

BIG STORM. CLOSING POOL. HOW IS WEATHER? THAT IS ALL.

Chemical automation was fairly exotic for residential pool owners until recently. I don’t see why there can’t be a self-emptying skimmer basket, a sand filter that does its own backwashing and a pump that never loses prime. Apply some of those brilliantly engineered solutions developed for manufacturing and other industries to residential pool equipment and construction. The day these things are fully realized you'll still be able to do a visual inspection of your pool from the safety and comfort of your living room and everything will be exactly as it is now. Don't forget though to bring a spare oxygen tank and a space helmet if you must go outside to perform any routine maintenance.

 

[New2Me]

I don’t see why there can’t be a self-emptying skimmer basket

I assume it would work just like the kitty litter ones do? You don't have to scoop through the litter yourself, but you still end up holding a bag of ****. I'm still waiting for Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisperer, to whisper "Crud in this bag and then throw it away." and have his command followed. I would think that he will have success with that long before Hayward will with a self-actualized pool!!!

 

[lborne]

If you're only adjusting the SWG output 2 -3 times a year I think the environment for your pool in Vero Beach is unusually accommodating and perhaps has a low or very consistent bather load. .

We basically have 2 seasons - Summer and a few months of cooler weather (excepting the records we broke this year), so you are right, we don't have wild temp swings. I'm also not trying to keep my chlorine at some fixed value, but more just within the range, so I'm not constantly adjusting the SWG to the test results each time. What I've found is that during the summer, I keep the SWG at 50% (mine is more than double the size I need) and the CL goes a little higher during the week when the pool is not being used, but then comes back down when it is used on the weekends. This winter I've learned that I can keep the SWG at 5% and my FC has consistantly been 10 since October.

Don’t get much splash-out, do you? Last year my 14000 gallon pool took 360 lbs of the white stuff… 1 bag at a time!
(Net usage was closer to 285 lbs on account of a 20% drain/refill.) At $8.99 for a 40# bag, the annual cost was about $88.00 inc. sales tax.

I did forget about people who must backwash. Since I have a cartridge filter, the only salt loss I get is from heavy rains that overflow the pool or splashout. But even when the kids and their friends are doing cannon balls all day, the splashout is still minimal. You have to loose 1600 gallons before needing a 40 lb bag for 3000 ppm. That's a lot of splashout.

 

[no-mas]

I did forget about people who must backwash. Since I have a cartridge filter, the only salt loss I get is from heavy rains that overflow the pool or splashout. But even when the kids and their friends are doing cannon balls all day, the splashout is still minimal. You have to loose 1600 gallons before needing a 40 lb bag for 3000 ppm. That's a lot of splashout.

I was going to make a similar comment. ~300 lbs seems like an awful lot of salt to be adding...

 

[polyvue]

I assume it would work just like the kitty litter ones do? You don't have to scoop through the litter yourself, but you still end up holding a bag of ****. I'm still waiting for Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisperer, to whisper "**** in this bag and then throw it away." and have his command followed. I would think that he will have success with that long before Hayward will with a self-actualized pool!!!

Too funny!

I would think a self-emptying skimmer basket would have to be a bit more clever but who knows? There are commercial/industrial applications that handily solve the problem by various mechanical means and multiple-step operations. E.g., Sewage and effluent strainers that utiltize periodic backwashing, manufacturing operations that use controlled-feedback to determine the right time to empty a bin or recycle a slurry via weight sensors, counters and timers. There are simpler possiblities: the so-called "oversized" pump pots (filter baskets) are actually quite small volumetrically. Why can't they be 5 times larger? Ditto for skimmers. It would be nice to have a skimmer basket that you didn't have to empty in the middle of a storm. (Not applicable to you cage-loving Floridians!) Remember when large pools were fitted with 75 sq ft cartridge filters?

I was going to make a similar comment. ~300 lbs seems like an awful lot of salt to be adding...

Actually, I have a cartridge filter... I don't really have a handle on the salt demand. It seems everyone on the forum in summer time is trying to reduce CYA... I'm forever adding more to maintain the target level.

 

[lborne]

(Not applicable to you cage-loving Floridians!)

I don't know anyone who LOVES their cage. They are not pretty and are the first things to fail in a hurricane. Its just a necessity with the mosquitoes and no-see-ums. For me, it was also required because I have so much vegetation and trees that I'd be emptying the skimmer basket daily.

I don't really have a handle on the salt demand. It seems everyone on the forum in summer time is trying to reduce CYA... I'm forever adding more to maintain the target level.

Salt, and I am pretty sure CYA don't change due to evaporation. So if you really are adding 300+ lbs of salt a year and constantly adding CYA, then I'd assume you are also adding a heck of a lot of fill water. Yes? If so, then I'd say you have a leak. Might want to do the bucket test.

 

[no-mas]

(Not applicable to you cage-loving Floridians!)

I don't know anyone who LOVES their cage. They are not pretty and are the first things to fail in a hurricane. Its just a necessity with the mosquitoes and no-see-ums. For me, it was also required because I have so much vegetation and trees that I'd be emptying the skimmer basket daily.

Nobody LOVES the look, but keeping debris and critters out is priceless.

I don't really have a handle on the salt demand. It seems everyone on the forum in summer time is trying to reduce CYA... I'm forever adding more to maintain the target level.

Salt, and I am pretty sure CYA don't change due to evaporation. So if you really are adding 300+ lbs of salt a year and constantly adding CYA, then I'd assume you are also adding a heck of a lot of fill water. Yes? If so, then I'd say you have a leak. Might want to do the bucket test.

Correct lborne; salt, cya and CH remain fairly constant.

Greg, my thoughts are the same as lbornes; if you're constantly adding salt and cya to "keep up", I would think that you may be losing water... Are you doing lots and lots of cannonballs?

 

[Brentr]

If you're only adjusting the SWG output 2 -3 times a year I think the environment for your pool in Vero Beach is unusually accommodating and perhaps has a low or very consistent bather load. .

We basically have 2 seasons - Summer and a few months of cooler weather (excepting the records we broke this year), so you are right, we don't have wild temp swings. I'm also not trying to keep my chlorine at some fixed value, but more just within the range, so I'm not constantly adjusting the SWG to the test results each time. What I've found is that during the summer, I keep the SWG at 50% (mine is more than double the size I need) and the CL goes a little higher during the week when the pool is not being used, but then comes back down when it is used on the weekends. This winter I've learned that I can keep the SWG at 5% and my FC has consistantly been 10 since October.

Don’t get much splash-out, do you? Last year my 14000 gallon pool took 360 lbs of the white stuff… 1 bag at a time!
(Net usage was closer to 285 lbs on account of a 20% drain/refill.) At $8.99 for a 40# bag, the annual cost was about $88.00 inc. sales tax.

I did forget about people who must backwash. Since I have a cartridge filter, the only salt loss I get is from heavy rains that overflow the pool or splashout. But even when the kids and their friends are doing cannon balls all day, the splashout is still minimal. You have to loose 1600 gallons before needing a 40 lb bag for 3000 ppm. That's a lot of splashout.

lborne I believe that we have similar situations :-D From what I can tell I had the SWG at 50% while we were swimming last year. The SWG is now at 5% and I still have FC at 8-10. I have had to add some salt last week as I noticed that it was reading 2600, now it is right at 3100 after adding about 30 lbs. The PB left me with about 3-4 extra bags so I have not had to buy any. I only lose salt when I backwash my filter and to bring the pool levels down as we have been having an unusual amt of rain lately. More is expected this Friday

 

[Brentr]

I don't know anyone who LOVES their cage. They are not pretty and are the first things to fail in a hurricane. Its just a necessity with the mosquitoes and no-see-ums.

Sorry to say but we LOVE our Pool Cage. I think that you will be quite surprised, according to the Cage person, it will be the only thing standing if we get a hurricane, it is built to withstand 160mph winds
Of coarse we do not want to test it :-D
I hate to scoop out leaves and things out of the water MyGoosh if I had to do that it would take up valuable DRINKING TIME

Polyvue we have Alligators, Snakes, Lions and Tigers to keep out from swimming in the pool DW would have a fit if she came out and saw these creatures swimming in the pool :-D

 

[polyvue]

I don't really have a handle on the salt demand. It seems everyone on the forum in summer time is trying to reduce CYA... I'm forever adding more to maintain the target level.

Salt, and I am pretty sure CYA don't change due to evaporation. So if you really are adding 300+ lbs of salt a year and constantly adding CYA, then I'd assume you are also adding a heck of a lot of fill water. Yes? If so, then I'd say you have a leak. Might want to do the bucket test.

Correct lborne; salt, cya and CH remain fairly constant.

Greg, my thoughts are the same as lbornes; if you're constantly adding salt and cya to "keep up", I would think that you may be losing water... Are you doing lots and lots of cannonballs?

No cannonballs... well maybe one, but it was an embarrassment to me and all watching.
Haven't analyzed salt/CYA use too closely so may have to do that and perform a bucket test. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[lborne]

I think that you will be quite surprised, according to the Cage person, it will be the only thing standing if we get a hurricane, it is built to withstand 160mph winds

I think the key phrase is "according to the Cage person". :-D We went through Francis and Jean back in 2004 and even though we did not have a pool or cage at the time, everyone I know that had one required repairs. There was a 2 year backlog of work for the Cage people. The only real damage to homes was ripping shingles off the roof. (Of course, that let water in + no A/C for a couple weeks and thus you are replacing all carpet and drywall due to mold).

However, I know that now code is better and cages built more recently are able to withstand higher winds. Mine is supposed to withstand 140 mph, but I'm not sure if that is gust or sustained. I've noticed most older cages have cable tensioners for the diagonals; whereas the newer ones have aluminum tube like the rest of the cage. And the gusset plates have a heck of a lot more screws.

But yes, we love our cage for its functionality, but I meant we do not love them for the cost and looks.