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Thread: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

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    Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    In 2004, I inherited an above ground pool from a real estate transaction. The people moving into a house didn't want the pool and told me I could have it if I removed it. So I did.

    Anyway, I don't know the history of the pool or how old it is. It's been working since I got it and set it up with the the pump that came with it and the sand filter. The plate that has the motor rating was scratched up pretty good right where the hp entry is so I can't tell what it is. The sand filter, I believe to be an Pentair Sand Dollar 60. The pool is 18x33 oval by 48" deep. I've calculated this to be around 15k gal. This past weekend, the motor froze up.

    I'm trying to figure out what's a good route to go with a replacement pump. I've heard a lot about how much you save energy wise on a 2 speed pump. Are they that much more expensive initially? With the BBB method, is it better to circulate 24/7? Also, would this be a good time to replace the filter as well or even switch to a different type of filter? Are DE filters hard to maintain? The only issues I've had with sand is that previously with my Chlorease SWG (I've quit using this now) I'd have algae blooms and it was a pain in the neck to keep vacuuming to waste and then replacing the water and getting the chemistry back in line. The other issue is that even though I replaced the gauge, the filter only fluctuates between 9psi (freshly backwashed) to 16 psi (no pressure at the outlets).

    Here's some more info about the pool.

    Plumbing:
    Intake from skimmer to basket - 1.5"
    Pump to filter - 2"
    Filter to jets - 2" that feeds a 1.5" 4ft run and a 1.25" 30ft run.

    Electrical:
    Both 120 and 240 lines run to the pump area

    Access:
    Both pump and filter are underneath decking with sitting ground level with the pool.



    Thanks for any help and advice.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    It would help of you could post any info you can get off the motor data plate. A lot of those motors don't have the HP listed on the plate anyway. It's usually on a label elsewhere.

    Going with a two speed pump is recommended here but every situation is different. In my case it wouldn't help power wise because I only run my pump 8 hours a day, so if 2-speed used 1/3rd the power and I ran it 24hrs per day the power usage would be the same. However, when I need to replace mine I'm buying a 2-speed because it gives me the flexibility to run it 24/7 to keep the pool skimmed if I choose.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    You would be very pleased with a 2 speed. You can get a good one for a couple hundred dollars (pump only if you got that route).

    If you replace the filter, I would recommend a cartridge - they are a good match for an SWG because the water balance is more stable. My only concern would be the location, under the deck? as you need to be able to take the filter housing off to remove the cart for maintenance/cleaning. Is there room to do that?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    I actually quit using my SWG since there always seemed to be a problem with it. I was having to clean the unit 1 a week. I'd gone through 3 transformers (2 under warranty - 1 that cost $100). When it worked, it was decent, but when the transformer goes out and you don't notice for a couple of days, it's a pain. So until I find a way to get cheaper transformers, I'm probably not going to go back to the SWG.

    This last month I had been using bleach and was doing well with it until the pump froze.

    As for the cartridge filter, I wouldn't be against moving the filter out from underneath the deck to get the vertical clearance. The deck is only about 3 feet wide at that point. You'll notice that I said "I wouldn't be against..." -- I might have to do some smooth talking to the wife though

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    I was wrong about not being able to see the HP rating of the motor. It looks like its a 2HP motor. That must have been the spa pump I was thinking about. I was able to snap some pictures of the labels of both the pump motor and filter. I've posted them on my picasaweb account.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/zaph0d.b...eat=directlink

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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    FWIW, the Chlorease is probably not the best device to judge SWCG's by. I had one, and wasn't real thrilled with it either. I sold it in a garage sale, and went with an Intex SWCG. Granted it's not as nice as the higher end models, but it does a good job of generating chlorine, and it's got a cleaning cycle. But, to each their own. Manually adding bleach works great too, as you know.

    2HP is probably too much pump for that pool. You could scale back to a 1 HP, I'd bet. With having both 120V and 240V at the pump area, you'll have more options to choose from, especially if you go with a 2-speeder. I have a 2-speeder, and love it. Much, much more quiet when running on low than a single speed, and if you run your single speed quite a bit, it's more economical, too. I bought my pump from Amerimerc.com . Best prices I'd found at that time.

    Which filter to use is a personal preference. Everyone swears by what they like, be it sand, DE, or cart. If your boss doesn't want it out from under the deck, then that will limit you, of course.

    Just my .02.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    That pump doesn't list an HP or a service factor (SF) but from the motor number it's considered a 1-1/2 HP motor with a 1.0 SF. Replacing the motor with a 2-speed would be easy. You could go with a BN50 if you're running on 120V or a BN34 if you're using 230V. You can find them online for about $170 - $200. Complete pumps in the same size run for ~$250 up.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    So would it make much difference between a 2 speed 1.5hp or 1.0hp pump? I'm going to replace the pump and motor since the pump has been dripping for quite some time.

    Also, is my filter the right size for this pool?

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    A 1 hp pump draws about 2/3rds the power of a 1.5 hp so in the long run it'll be cheaper to operate. If you're running it 24/7 it'll make a pretty good difference going with a smaller sized pump and you should still have enough power to vacuum on high.

    If your filter is the SD-60 (which it appears to be) then it's plenty big enough for your pool.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeInTN
    FWIW, the Chlorease is probably not the best device to judge SWCG's by. I had one, and wasn't real thrilled with it either. I sold it in a garage sale, and went with an Intex SWCG. Granted it's not as nice as the higher end models, but it does a good job of generating chlorine, and it's got a cleaning cycle. But, to each their own. Manually adding bleach works great too, as you know.
    http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=3393842 is this the Intex one you have?

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    that's the one...you can find it on ebay for $150 shipped...may need some adapters from your local home depot to plumb it in, but otherwise, mine worked well all season, with barely any need for bleach
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    check item # 350164547679 on ebay...that's the folks I bought mine from...$114.99 plus $25 shipping...wow...that $140 shipped...I may just pick up a spare
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    Cabela's also has it on sale for $114.99, and I think it's $15 shipping to my location. Hmmm..now where is my debit card....
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    nice find Mike
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmoyer
    Intake from skimmer to basket - 1.5"
    Pump to filter - 2"
    Filter to jets - 2" that feeds a 1.5" 4ft run and a 1.25" 30ft run.
    What I don't get is having a 2 hp motor pulling on a 1 1/2" pipe. Is there a main drain or other suction side inlets? The hydraulic experts here will correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems a recipe for lots of suction side head. If possible, I'd look at replacing the intake pipe to a inside-diameter pipe of at least 2" -- to match the post-pump specification.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    You guys probably saw this coming, but is there a big difference between pump brands. I've been looking at some Waterway and Hayward pumps....I know the Hayward name, but never had heard of the Waterway one before.

    Is is a case of you get what you pay for, or are all the pumps using the same motors and same pump tech?

    Thanks

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmoyer
    Intake from skimmer to basket - 1.5"
    Pump to filter - 2"
    Filter to jets - 2" that feeds a 1.5" 4ft run and a 1.25" 30ft run.
    What I don't get is having a 2 hp motor pulling on a 1 1/2" pipe. Is there a main drain or other suction side inlets? The hydraulic experts here will correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems a recipe for lots of suction side head. If possible, I'd look at replacing the intake pipe to a inside-diameter pipe of at least 2" -- to match the post-pump specification.
    I'm by no means a hydraulic expert, but 1.5" from the skimmer to pump isn't uncommon at all on AGP's, and a quick trip through Googleland for AGP widemouth skimmers seems to confirm that. That particular run is so short anyway, I doubt going to 2" would have much of an affect anyway. I go back to my first thoughts - 2HP is way too much pump for that pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmoyer
    You guys probably saw this coming, but is there a big difference between pump brands. I've been looking at some Waterway and Hayward pumps....I know the Hayward name, but never had heard of the Waterway one before.

    Is is a case of you get what you pay for, or are all the pumps using the same motors and same pump tech?
    I haven't heard much about Waterway pumps (my skimmer and returns are Waterway, but I digress). I don't think you could go wrong with either a Hayward or Pentair pump, especially when it comes to getting replacement parts if needed. Hopefully someone more familiar with the Waterway brand will comment on their quality and parts availability.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeInTN
    I'm by no means a hydraulic expert, but 1.5" from the skimmer to pump isn't uncommon at all on AGP's, and a quick trip through Googleland for AGP widemouth skimmers seems to confirm that. That particular run is so short anyway, I doubt going to 2" would have much of an affect anyway. I go back to my first thoughts - 2HP is way too much pump for that pool.
    I stand corrected. First time this has ever happened, by the way ('cuz usually I'm sitting down...) Thanks, Mike.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmoyer
    You guys probably saw this coming, but is there a big difference between pump brands. I've been looking at some Waterway and Hayward pumps....I know the Hayward name, but never had heard of the Waterway one before.

    Is it a case of you get what you pay for, or are all the pumps using the same motors and same pump tech?
    I have no experience with Waterway but all pump mfg's use the same motors. They'll most likely be Magnetek or A.O.Smith. One thing to look for is whether the motor is full rated or uprated. Most lower cost pumps are uprated.

    I'll echo Mike that either a Hayward or Pentair would be a good choice because of parts availability. If it were me I'd call several of the local pool places and see which brand they carry and what parts they stock. Then I'd buy based on that finding.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Need help choosing a pump (maybe a filter too?)

    I run a 0.5hp full-rated (pentair superflo) on a 13,500 gal pool with 250lb hayward sand filter...no problems whatsoever...I'm pretty sure the 0.75hp version would suit your need just fine assuming you have typical abg pool plumbing (4-10ft between pool and filter/pump), but I would up the filter to a 250-300lb model (the bigger the better)...chances are your filter is the most restrictive part of pool plumbing.

    IMHO (I'm not an expert) A 0.5hp full rated pump is more than enough for a 200lb filter and assuming a modest 30gal per min flow rate, you would acheive a turnover in about 8 hours.

    Hopefully those who are much smarter than me with hydralics can confirm my thoughts.

    Good luck
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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