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Thread: Alkalinity

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    Alkalinity

    The Alch in my pool has been sky high since we had a new liner put in 3 months ago. I can not for there life of me bring it down to read on the stick.I had a computer read out of my chemicals and i believe it said 297 it also told me to add 2 lbs of a Alch/ph reducer. I did it yesterday at 11 am and today with the pump running all night at 3pm its still the same color on the stick. Any suggestions.The water WAS clear till last week here is no algae in the pool according to the 4 algae tests it done its just dirty and murky.

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    It sounds like you have several water issues. The only way to get them cured is with some accurate test results.

    When you say, "on the stick", what does that mean? What are you testing with?

    Can you post a full set of test results?
    Dave S.
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    Re: Alkalinity

    the dumb test strips that only read 8.0 Ph nothing higher. Stabilizer/chlorine reads normal Ph is now reading 7.6 and alch on the test strip is still blue color not in the green range.

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    you need to post a full set of accurate test results for us to assist you. "Normal" does not tell us much.

    Your TA maybe high, but it is not your primary problem from the sound of things. It's either algae or calcimum scaling, and I'm guessing it's the later given your high PH, but with a set of full water test results, we are just "guessing"
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Alkalinity

    Here is the full test.
    total chl: 7.5
    free chlorine: 7.5
    ph:7.8
    total alkalinity:308
    adj alk:290
    total hardness: 355
    optimizer + : 13
    copper:0
    iron: 0
    manganese:0
    staining:none
    green algae : 0
    black algae :0
    mustard algae: 0
    slime mold :0
    Carabeian pools said " 1 gallon of muradic acid would drop the alkalinity down by 50 points" he also said " Add 5 gallons of acid with the pool pump off . wait 4hours and then run it for 24 hrs this will bring it down to normal range "
    Hope this is true since i need to close in 2-3 weeks and i would like to see it clear so i dont go threw this **** when i open

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    TravisD's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    I wouldn't add muriatic acid with the pump off. In fact, I wouldn't add any chemicals with the pump off. I'm sure it is denser than water and would just sink and sit on the bottom. According to pool school, the acid should be added with the pump on.
    24' Round AGP | 13,600 Gallons | Waterway Cartridge Filter | Waterway 2 Speed Pump | K-2006 Test Kit
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    welcome again. I would suggest you read pool school as there is a "how to" on lowering TA. Here is the crash course...

    1)buy a few jugs of MA (How big is your pool?)
    2) use poolcalculator.com to figure out how much MA you need to add to lower your PH from 7.8 to 7.0
    3) Lower your PH to 7.0
    4) you'll need a source of aeration...fountain, spa over flow, or just point the returns up. You can also build your own out of pvc..search for rangeball's aerator on TFP for ideas.
    5) Aerate your pool water until the PH rises to 7.6
    6)repeat items 3,4 & 5
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Alkalinity

    48k gallon pool.So im never going to get a straight answer everyone is saying a different story? when I used 3 gallons of MA 3-4 weeks ago with the pool pump on in the deep end then waited a few hrs and tested it it said 8.0 on the test strip then next day i took a sample in and the computer said it was still over 250. Now im at 380 or something like that. So Caribbean pool company also said 1 gallon of MA reduces the Alk by 50 points per gallon? I dont know who to believe If i use the MA with the pump off and wait 4 hrs and this runes my liner can i SUE them? I just payed 4,000 $ for it this year .

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    If you follow the procedure outline in Pool School at pool-school/lowering%20total%20alkalinity

    you can lower the alkalinity. None of the other methods will work.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Alkalinity

    As John T and I stated follow the sticky (my abreviated version is the same method). Also, if you just spent 4,000 on a new liner..I would Strongly encourage you to invest $70 on a good test kit...pool store test results are not reliable, period. Strips are even worse. A good drop based kit is the most consistent and I would suggest either the Taylor k2006 or the tf100 from TFtestkits.net (better value IMHO and uses taylor reagents). You won;t find either kit in your local pool store...usually just available online, but worth it.

    Using the above method I lowered my TA to 80 from 330. It works and the concept is rather simple.

    Muratic acid lowers PH and TA
    Aeration raises PH back up without affecting TA

    You repeat this process until your TA is at you goal # and then aerate until your PH raises to 7.5.

    On a 48K gallon pool your going to need a lot of MA. It took me about 7 gallons added in increments over 5 days of aeration (filter running 24x7)to get the Job done...you'll need at least 10 gallons of MA.

    Sorry I can;t offer legal advice, but if you added your MA in the deep end and you had your pump on you should be OK...but in the future, when adding MA only do so when the pump is running and pur it slowly in front of your return so that it disperses in the water.

    Good luck...IMHO pool stores are good for selling chemicals and stealing your money...there are a few good one out there but it's a rarity. Good luck
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Alkalinity

    Ya they always try and sell me something that id 4-5$ or more then a regular store like walmart or Lowe's for MA which is 4$ compared to 8.50 at the pool center.Well I think i will try both methods and report on How each did. So If their method fails and This site Prevails il always trust you guys period. As for the test kit I just ordered 1. Thanks for all the info and help.

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    Re: Alkalinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Vistal
    I dont know who to believe If i use the MA with the pump off and wait 4 hrs and this runes my liner can i SUE them? I just payed 4,000 $ for it this year .
    I'll guess that if it ruins the liner, you won't know about right away. The actual failure may happen later and get blamed on something else.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Alkalinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Vistal
    48k gallon pool.So im never going to get a straight answer everyone is saying a different story? when I used 3 gallons of MA 3-4 weeks ago with the pool pump on in the deep end then waited a few hrs and tested it it said 8.0 on the test strip then next day i took a sample in and the computer said it was still over 250. Now im at 380 or something like that. So Caribbean pool company also said 1 gallon of MA reduces the Alk by 50 points per gallon? I dont know who to believe If i use the MA with the pump off and wait 4 hrs and this runes my liner can i SUE them? I just payed 4,000 $ for it this year .
    One gallon of full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) will lower the Total Alkalinity (TA) by 10.4 ppm in 48,000 gallons (you can use The Pool Calculator for calculations). See Lower Total Alkalinity for the correct procedure. Do not, under any circumstances, dump acid into your pool with the pump off, nor put it into the skimmer. Muriatic Acid has a pH of -1; yes, that's right, it's less than 0. Even diluted 100 to 1 it's still a pH of 1. Low pH is the worst thing for your liner. You want to add the acid very slowly over a return flow in the deep end with the pump running to ensure thorough mixing. For extra safety, especially with a vinyl liner pool, you can lightly brush the side and bottom of the pool where you've added the acid. You can also use this same procedure when adding chlorine as you don't want that pooling to the bottom either.

    Ditto on the good test kit.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Alkalinity

    Well I done It . Its around 200 Alk and ph is low but im adjusting it slow adding PH up and watching the alk and adding some MA as it rises a little. I added 5 gallons of MA with the Pump off for 30 min to let it drop into the Deep end in the center over the Skimmer .Then turned the pump on and added 1 gallon over the whole pool. It dropped the alk in 2 hrs . It went from green to clear in 15 hr of the pump running and i had it on for 24 hrs . Tomorrow i will have a another Comp test run to have it checked. Now alot of vacuuming .) Thanks for the help thought i do a update.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Vistal
    Well I done It . Its around 200 Alk and ph is low but im adjusting it slow adding PH up and watching the alk and adding some MA as it rises a little. I added 5 gallons of MA with the Pump off for 30 min to let it drop into the Deep end in the center over the Skimmer .Then turned the pump on and added 1 gallon over the whole pool. It dropped the alk in 2 hrs . It went from green to clear in 15 hr of the pump running and i had it on for 24 hrs . Tomorrow i will have a another Comp test run to have it checked. Now alot of vacuuming .) Thanks for the help thought i do a update.
    This was such a bad idea on so many levels....

    Do you realize that adding PH up raises PH and TA. You are not going to get anywhere by listening to the Pool Store....your PH/TA will see-saw back and forth but you won't make any progress.

    If you want to save your $4000 investment, follow the instructions in How to Lower TA and you will succeed.

    Listening to the Pool Store is going to cost you more money and quite possibly your liner.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Alkalinity

    Vistal...FPM is very right here. The only result adding both MA and PH Plus will have is lowering the level of cash in your pocket.

    MA lowers PH and TA.
    Aeration raises PH without effecting TA.

    PH + raises both PH and TA
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Alkalinity

    Well after doing this and runing the pump for 24hrs i took a sample back to the store and its as follows
    Chlorine 4 ppm
    Fee Chl :4
    total alkalinity:170
    adj alk:150
    PH 7.2
    So im going to watch it for 2 weeks And Close for the winter.
    Thanks for all the help it was a Combo Of suggestions from here and the pool store.

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    Re: Alkalinity

    The suggestions from your pool store that had you dump acid into your pool with the pump off may have severely weakened your vinyl liner so if you have problems with it don't blame the advice given here.

    The TA dropped pretty much as predicted where 5 gallons would lower the TA around 50 ppm and the pH would drop to around 6.6 though some outgassing of carbon dioxide could raise the pH some. Your adding of pH Up would then raise both pH and TA so since your TA ended up at 170, you could have used around 1 pound or so of pH Up as that would bring the TA to 170 (and the pH to 6.7 or more with outgassing -- to 7.2 according to your numbers).

    As was noted, to lower the TA you do NOT want to use pH Up for raising the pH. You only want to aerate the water. You just waste money by adding acid and then pH Up. There is no mystery with any of what you did so I do not understand why you followed the advice from the pool store rather than following the TA lowering procedure that is far safer, more effective, and less expensive.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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