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Thread: Flooding

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    Flooding

    I just bought some Revive from the pool company that built my pool. Vinyl liner with 50 K gallons. Last June we had flooding and my pool kept overflowing with rain water. Could not get it started up with chemicals as usually do as they kept washing out with rain. Then I went to Puerto Rico for a week for a wedding and left 2 floaters as pump was turned off and safety cover installed. It kept raining and I was gone an additional 1 1/2 weeks due to death in family. I had a carpet of algae on the bottom and on the cover. Sigh. So I vacuumed out algae to waste until the water got too low, then hit it with algaecide and chlorine. I got it cleaned up but since then I can't keep it balanced or clear. 5 way HTH kit shows TA at 160-200 and PH at 6.8. I use muriatic acid to lower TA and soda ash to raise PH, but then the TA goes back up. I read the articles and am aereating pool now to see if I can raise PH w/o soda ash. The pool co had no suggestions other than Revive. I am at 7.2 and 195 TA right now. I can only see own about 5 ft in 10 ft deep end. Went thru 100 lbs dichlor in last month in addition to useing 2 floaters and an auto feeder. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Revive & EZ Pool

    please start your own thread. if you have added that much dichlor, not to mention chlorine tabs, your cya level is way too high and you'll have to drain a lot of water to salvage that pool. all you need is chlorine, don't buy algaecides, revive, etc. start reading here: pool-school/
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Flooding

    When TA is high you should use Borax to raise PH. 7.2 is fine with TA that high it will drift up slowly on it's own. Everytime the PH hits 7.8, use Muratic Acid to lower the PH to 7.2 again. Eventually the TA will come into range too, because the acid is also lowering the TA.

    PH/TA isn't the main issue - the lack of proper FC levels is. The higher your CYA, the higher your FC level must be to maintain clear water.

    If you really used 100 lbs of Dichlor, your CYA is around 120 if not higher, so you need to drain out about 50% of the water and replace with fresh. I wouldn't drain it all at once, or your liner could float, I'd do 1/3, then refill, recirculate and repeat.

    You need one of the recommended test kits - read about them in Pool School.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Flooding

    the cya is slightly below 30, so no problem there that I know of.
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    Re: Flooding

    TV,

    As FPM said, your problem is likely lack of chlorine but we can't really help until you post a full set of test results to include pH, TA, FC, CC, CYA (abbreviations are in pool school if you aren't familiar with them.

    Once those are up, we can give you some specific advise on clearing up your pool one styep at a time.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by tvretired
    the cya is slightly below 30, so no problem there that I know of.
    100 lbs of dichlor will have raised CYA by 110, so your current CYA level can't be around 30.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by tvretired
    the cya is slightly below 30, so no problem there that I know of.
    Have already you been dumping and replacing a lot of water thru this process?

    Read about your N2 here:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/alter...uth-t3025.html
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Flooding

    OK, so much for the pool company test results. I just tested with my HTH 5-way so I don't have FC or CC, but only TC. My TF test kit is on the way. Too bad I didn't know about this site earlier, just received my latest order of 100# dichlor and 100#soda ash and 2 Nature 2 cartridges. The cartridges are new and I will not install them, so the Nature 2 in-line vessel is empty. Anyone want to buy them? Anyway today it reads: PH 7.2, TC 0-.5, TA 195, TH is always in range of 250-300 and has never been an issue. And finally, yes, you were right, CYA is 110. *&^% pool co just tested me 2 days ago and never said a word about the CYA being so high. So, I am aerating now and the pool is definitely clearing up. Couple more days and I should see the bottom of the 10' deep dive well. Needs to be vacuumed so I will vacuum to waste til I lose the prime, then refill, which should take about 1/3, or 15,000 gal out. I have to refill from well and don't want to run it dry so I don't add more than 6,000 gal per day. I have hard water so I usually use metal out to take out iron, is this still OK? I have been reading the Pool School and especially like the article on muriatic acid additions using the column vs puddle vs wide spreading and will definitely quite dumping in one spot in the deep end. Time now to google liquid chlorine to fine best price and run to store for 20 mule team.
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Flooding

    Yes, metal sequesterants are a good idea if you know you have metals. Look for ones that are "HEDP based."

    Sequasol, Jack's magic stuff are good brands.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Flooding

    Thanks for your help! It seems my immediate problem is a low chlorine level. I am going to vacuum to waste and am now aerating like heck to get PH up high enough to use muriatic acid to lower TA. With CYA at 110 I will have to add a lot of bleach to hit FC level of 39 from the chart to shock it. Am I better off to wait for a few days while I blow out some water and refill to lower the CYA or should I bite the bullet for now and buy enough bleach to shock it with the high CYA?
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    Re: Flooding

    Hey, TV,

    Sorry you have had to discover the problems now but, they were always there so the good folks on this forum will stay with you to work them out.

    You will be amazed at how your own accurate testing will help your pool issues.

    I would suggest you bite the bullet and drain some water to get your CYA down to 60. I know that' half your pool but you can do it in slow increments and use less and less chlorine as you go. High CYA is very troublesome and the sooner you commit to getting it down, the fewer pool water issues you will have.

    I'm not much of a metals expert but keep in mind that you can never emove the metal from your water....you can only sequester it. That's easy enough and it sounds like you already have a grip on it but ask questions and the real metal experts will chime in.

    Just in case we all forgot, "Welcome to the forum!"
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Flooding

    Hi TV,

    I agree that your bigget problem is your high CYA level and suggest the drain/refill dance to get it down to at least 60.

    Next, you should adjust your pH, add sequesterants and then shock your pool. See Pool School.

    Once your pool is cleared, you can address the high TA, if it presents a problem.

    Congrats on ordering the TF100 Test Kit. It will put you in control of your pool.

    Welcome to the forum
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Flooding

    OK, but it will take me about 6 days of lower/refill to hit the 30,000 gal mark of old water replacement. I have a new suction side air leak and lose the prime off the main drain when my water level drops below the bottom of the skimmer opening, which limits how much water I can withdraw until I fix the leak. Also I have a well and want to limit my refill to about 5000-6000 gal per day to avoid any well probems.

    Will I be OK with the low TC of 0-.5 for that long? The calculator says with a CYA of 100 (I will test in the morning to see what happened after today's refill) it willl take 13 jugs of 6% to hit a FC of 12, or to shock at FC of 39 I will need 42 jugs. Should I put any bleach in now to prevent any algae? I have an excess of algaecide in now, if the foaming I see when I agitate the water is indicative of the algaecide level. I did put a gallon of Wal-Mart HTH algaecide in about a week or so ago when I saw the early signs of green algae in the corners and step fittings.
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    Re: Flooding

    Will I be OK with the low TC of 0-.5 for that long?
    Very unlikely. I would bring the FC up to at least 5ppm and hold it there by testing and adding daily......that's the least I think you can get by with and I really believe you would do better keeping it around 8ppm.

    After you've got about 12k drained and refilled, you would be reasonably safe @ 5-6ppm.

    After about 24k drained (that should place your CYA in the 60ppm range) and refilled you should be able to keep your FC around 3-5ppm the rest of the summer and have no algae problems.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Flooding

    OK, I added 6 jugs of 6% bleach so I should hit 5ppm. I also added 3 boxes 20 mule team (228 oz) so that should bring my ph up to about 7.5 from 7.2. Its all the borax I could find in town. I am also aerating as I will be leaving for 5 days next week on a camping trip and my wife does not know pools at all. Hopefully I can have the CYA down to about 40-50 with TA around 100 and PH at 7.5 or so before I leave. Depends on how much aeration I can do and how fast it works plus whether or not I can find more borax anywhere. None at Wal-mart or Aldi, darn them.

    The water exchange should also lower my TH down from 300.

    Each winter I drop the water level below the inlets and winterize. So, with the spring thaw the pool is generally overfull from snow and rain and I get an annual CYA reduction from that and the regulr fills I do during the summer due to evaporation and the pool parties my 3 teenage kids and their friends have every week.
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    Re: Flooding

    TV,

    If that TA test is a pool store test, I would leave TA alone until you can do your own testing.

    You've got your pH in a sweet spot and your TA can wait until you get your CYA and FC in the proper range.

    TA is the hardest to adjust (sort of) and usually the least critical of the parameters for which we test.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Flooding

    I buy my metal sequester from this site. Its a Robarb brand and we have high copper and iron concentrations. This stuff is cheap and works great, plus it comes right to your door. Good luck!

    Website:

    http://www.poolgeek.com/Search.aspx?k=r ... tal+master
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Flooding

    I am doing my final pump and refill now. Current TF numbers are: TC 0, ph 7.7 and aerating + Borax, TA 270 (yep that's some hard water in that well), CH 130, CYA 90, 68% F. I ordered 10 cases of Borax ( 285 lbs or 4560 oz) from Wal-Mart and have 13 gal 31.45% muriatic acid. Wife wants to know what the heck I am building in the basement! I leave to go camping on Wed, back on Sun and she suspects it is some kind of special fish bait, not pool chemicals.

    I have a lot of dichlor and trichlor and will see if I can return it. If not, perhaps I can exchange it for cal-chlor since it is not stabilized and my CH is now 130 and will be lower than that after I refill tonight.

    My thought is if the CYA is low enough then I can use trichlor in the feeder while I am gone so my wife does not have to mess with liquid bleach. I am adding 6-8 gallons of bleach every night but it sure does not stay around long. I check it before I do the drain and refill cycle and it is always at about 0. So until I run out of cal-chlor, if I do exchange for it, I can use cal-chlor as shock. Once my CH hits 250-300 I can switch to bleach.

    What do you think of my using Trichlor while gone if the CYA is kept below 70 or so? How about using cal-chlor as shock until my CH hits 250-300? I doubt In-The-Swim will take back my dichlor or trichlor.

    I do drain about 7300 gallons out every fall when I winterize, so that has been keeping my CYA low enough each year until I had the algae problem and used 100 # dichlor over a months time to try and burn it out.
    56,000 gal in-ground vinyl liner, 22' x 44' with 10' deep dive well (only 8' long shallow end)
    1 hp Hayward Superpump, runs 24/7, 300# Hayward S244T sand filter
    Hayward H300 300,000 BTU LP gas heater, Rainbow auto chlorinator w/ check valve
    Liquidator liquid chlorine feeder, Polaris 380 pool cleaner with 3/4 hp booster pump

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    Re: Flooding

    CH is mostly irrelevant in vinyl pools, and 300 should be plenty low enough to not cause any clouding.
    you can use the trichlor, but if you're consuming that much bleach I don't think it will make a lot of difference.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by tvretired
    .... Needs to be vacuumed so I will vacuum to waste til I lose the prime, then refill, which should take about 1/3, or 15,000 gal out. I have to refill from well and don't want to run it dry so I don't add more than 6,000 gal per day.

    .... I am adding 6-8 gallons of bleach every night but it sure does not stay around long.
    Sounds like you have a massive leak.

    How much water do you remove from the pool on a regular basis? Water should really only be removed to correct high levels of contant chemicals ie CYA.

    Sounds like you adding a huge amount of chlorine to the water, if you have high CYA levels you shouldn't "lose" chlorine; it just doesn't do its job at with high levels.

    How offten does it rain, whats your seasonal inch average where you live? If you live in an area where the rain exceeds evaporation levels you mostlikely have a high water level run off. In those cases, you can count on losing about 1/2 the chemical contence per volume of rain you get.

    Does your pool have an auto-fill? Is it constantly running?

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