Pool Heaters any recommendations!

[NCSalt]

Hi All!

Our minds are made up, we want a pool heater pump!

However, even though I've been doing research I feel that I'm more confused than anything else!
Our pool's highest temp this year was 84 degree's (for maybe a couple of days) since then it's been hovering around 80. We have a very shady pool area and tree-removal is not an option!
I've looked into Hayward Heat Pumps, our local pool service (also the people that installed our pool) quoted 4,300 for a Hayward Heat Pump (not sure what btu) and approx. 350 for install!

Please help!
1-what is important in selecting a heat pump
2-should we buy it online and have an electrician install or go with original pool builder
3-what btu is recommended (our pool is a mtn lake 21X40, the gallons is guess work, approx 15,000?)
4-what is the average cost for an install

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Tanja

 

[Poolsean]

What is your pool depth? (so we can estimate the gallons)
Are you using a solar cover on your pool? (which helps determine your heat loss factor)

Where are you located?
Which months are you looking to heat your pool?
What Temperature are you looking to maintain?
(These help to determine the amount of heat you will need during the cooler months of the year)

What's important in selecting a heat pump are:
- Your BTU requirements
- The BTU and COP (coefficiency of Performance - efficiency factor) of the heat pump
- Quietness factor. If your equipment, especially the heat pump, is close to a window, you will hear it. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-S0QHKb ... r_embedded
- Automatic Defrost cycle (for cold temperature operation - some heat pumps will ice up and shut down under protection when air temps fall below 50 degrees)
- Titanium heat exchanger design and warranty. This is where the pool or spa water comes in contact with the hot freon. Older Copper heat exchanger designs were prone to chemical attack and eventual damage, rendering the heat pump useless and not covered under warranty. Titanium heat exchangers are virtually impervious to chemical attack. AquaCal offers a lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger.

I think you'll find some happy heat pump customers here that ordered their heat pumps on line. This is fine but make sure you have a local dealer that is willing to do the electrial and plumbing...and support it after the installation.
A local pool contractor will most likely sell and support the heat pump that they offer you.

I have many AquaCal heat pump dealers that install our heat pumps for $5500 to $7500, depending on the model, straight heat or heat and cool. So $4650, including installation, is probably good for the Hayward quality heat pump.
Just make sure they sell you a large enough heat pump to manage your pool volume, especially during the months that you really need to heat the pool to your desired temperature.
On the Aquacal site, there's a link that allows you to download our heating audit. This allows you to enter the parameters of your pool, and using the national weather averages for many cities around the country, we can provide the cost of gas versus heat pump savings. Or, if you want, I can run the heating audit for you. Just PM me if you need my help on this.

 

[NCSalt]

Sean!

Thanks for all the information you've provided!

Our pool is 21X40 (freeformed/mountain lake shape) the depth goes from 4 feet to 6 feet, originally our pool builder stated the pool has 27,000 gallons which is bologne, we are guestimating that the pool is about 15,000 gallons but as I've said I am not sure.

We would like to open (we actually never close our pool) but would like to begin swimming April through the month of september. Basically, we would just like to have a pool temp (at least during June-August) of 86...our's mostly stays at 80 and it's just not as comfy as we would like ot to be!

We are located in Raleigh, NC....in a heavily wooded area....our pool barely gets sun!

We have a solar cover, but it's a pain to put on. We area contemplating a "real" pool cover but thus far the prices have scared us away, that's something I wish we would have done at construction. Another problem for a pool cover is that we have a waterfall that sits on the concrete in the deep end corner overlapping the coping a little.

All our equipment is Hayward, but I am not married to it, so I am open to the suggestions that you've provided. I do feel that I may be better off just going with our pool builder and have him install it for the quoted price, but I really want to make sure that we are getting what we need and not that he is just making a sale without considering our needs!

I will take a look at the links and hopefully I will be able to make an informed decision!
Again thanks for your response!
Cheerio,
Tanja

 

[Poolsean]

Well, actually, 21 x 40 x 5ft average depth is approx 31,500 gallons, which is alot of water.
What's important with heaters is the weight of water and desired temp rise.
31,500 gallons x 8.3 lbs/gallon of water = 261,450 lbs of water.

This is your magic number.

If you want to calculate how long ANY heater will take to increase any amount of degrees,
261,450 x 30 degrees (to increase from 56 F to 86 F) = 7,843,500 BTUs needed.
Divided by the BTU OUTPUT of the heater (keep in mind that most GAS heaters are 75 - 95 % efficient). You can substitute the BTU output for your heater selection here:
7,843,500 / 127,000 (@ 5.6 COP AquaCal SQ156 Heat and Cool) = 62 hrs to increase 30 degrees.
7,843,500 / 112,000 (@ 5.0 COP Hayward Heat Pro Heat and Cool) = 70 hrs.
A 350,000 btu heater burning gas @85% efficient = 297,500 BTU output
7,843,500 / 297,500 = 26.4 hrs
This is just on the initial heat up. Gas is Faster, but in order to maintain your desired heat, a gas heater is cost prohibitive. The Heat Pump makes it affordable to do so.
Once you're at temperature, you're only looking to add enough heat to make up for the heat loss overnight.
This can be 50% for an uncovered pool, or 20% for a covered pool.
SO, for an uncovered pool, 50% of 62 hrs = 31 hrs, and there just isn't 31 hrs in a day, so you will need TWO heat pumps running 15.5 hrs/day, or;
20% of 62 hrs = 12.4 hrs with a covered pool, so you can maintain 86F temps with just one heat pump but you must cover the pool religiously.

Keep in mind that this is a typical example (using National Weather Averages for Raleigh NC with a swim season from Mid March to the end of September), so that your pool can be heated and ready by April 1 st and kept at 86 degrees.

 

[NCSalt]

Hi Sean!

OMG-You estimating over 30,000 gallons? I'm really confused over the gallons in our pool. Like I've stated earlier, originally the pool co stated it was 27,000 then they said (when we had the SWG installed) that it actually is 19,000, then I had another person saying that at most the pool has 15,000 so I am totally confused.

I will make it a point to get the mfg specs for our pool so I can have that mystery solved and make the right choice concerning a heater....I am leaning towards a heat pump since I do not want to have to deal with a gas line or tank. The pool equipment (filter, pump, etc) is located about 60 feet from the house therefore a electrical line is easier since there already is a 220 line because of our hottub.

Anyway, thank you very much for your information and for educating me on the BTU issue. It's alot to take in for someone whose not very good with technical stuff but I am determined to understand this and make the correct choice for our pool needs.

Have a great day!
Cheerio,
Tanja

 

[NCSalt]

We did it...we purchased a Hayward Heat Pro 1200 series Heat Pump, 116,000 BTU, and had it installed last Monday...it's working like a charm and we finally can swim at all hours w/out shivering....the pool is at a comfy 86 degrees and I am happy as a clam

It only took about 24 hours to go from 81 to 86 degrees....sweet

Now I can finally swim in the early morning hours and get some laps in before work!
Thank you Sean for the info that really helped me to understand heat pumps, btu, etc and was a great help in decided what to get for our needs

Happy Pool Season to All :-D :-D
Cheerio, T in NC