Haze that develops after just a few days

[spanky1]

Great topic. Been reading on here for a couple of weeks. Here's the situation: Intex 3375 gallon pool was set-up a couple of weeks ago. It sees a lot of use, and I've tried to manage this with daily pH & chlorine monitoring/adjusting.

My trouble is the haze that develops after just a few days. I don't think it's algae, because it came so quickly. Looking into it at night with a flashlight really shows the amount of suspended solids in the water. I'm able to sink these and clear the pool with flocculant, but this pool doesn't favor vacuuming the sunken matter.

After reading about the BBB method, I decided to give it a shot. I first ordered the TP-100 test kit. I then bought bleach, borax, and baking soda. Before adding these 3 items, the test results were:
chlorine-0
pH-7.0
TA-70
CYA-<20

Using the pool calculator for my pool and test results, I added 29oz bleach, 20oz Borax, and 17oz baking soda. I'm expecting magic within a few days. Will the suspended solids/cloudy water always be an issue inherent to the pool size and poor filtration?

I don't think that flocculant is the answer, and really want to get crystal water with the BBB method. I'm willing to put some effort into this. Am I on the right track?

Also, I keep reading about Di-Chlor. I looked for this in the Wal-Mart pool supply area tonight. I found stabilizer that contained CYA. Is this the same as di-chlor? I'm waiting to get the pH and chlorine levels to a desired level before adding CYA, correct?

Thanks so much.

 

[Nikki in IL]

First, the easy answers..."stabilizer" is the same thing as CYA (cyanuric acid). It is not the same thing as dichlor. Dichlor has CYA as an ingredient, along with other stuff. It's fine to use stabilizer if you can't find dichlor. Go ahead and get some CYA in there now...put it in a sock, tie a knot in the sock, and hang it somewhere in the pool/put it in the skimmer. Use the pool calc to figure out how much CYA you need to get to about 30. It takes about a week to dissolve.

Now, the cloudiness...several things at issue. Without CYA, you're likely losing chlorine faster than you're adding it. With a heavy swimmer load, you'll also be consuming more chlorine. What daily chlorine level are you aiming for? Without any stabilizer, your chlorine may be dropping too low (even zero) before the next dose of chlorine. You may well be fighting algae that as the chlorine level drops. Have you done an overnight FC test (instructions here :http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/overnight_fc_test)? If you're losing free chlorine overnight, you've got organics consuming chlorine.

Also, how long per day are you running your pump? I've said several times on this site that I've not had water quality issues with our Intex pump/filter, but I generally run the pump 18+ hours per day, only turning it off while kids are in. Residual cloudiness takes several days to filter out after the cause is found/corrected (algae, pollen, etc.)...it doesn't happen quickly. Earlier this year, our neighboring farmer tilled on the windiest day of the spring and filled my pool with his topsoil. Took about two weeks to clear completely. Try hosing off the filter daily, and replacing it frequently. Intex recommends a filter change every two weeks, but more often may be needed when you're trying to clear something.

Which vacuum are you using? Intex has two for these small pools. There is one that fits into the pump and will vacuum smaller particles, as it sends everything through the pump and filter. The garden-hose style vacuums larger debris (leaves, etc.) but not fine particles.

So...in short, get some CYA into the pool, do an overnight FC test (and post the results here for more advice), and consider more pump time. Let us know how you progress.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Nikki gave you great advice - and she knows the Intex stuff!

Try a Pool Store, or Lowes/Home Depot's pool departments for Dichlor "sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione" - usually sold in 1 lb bags labeled "shock". For your size pool you'll only need a little CYA and the cannisters are 3 and 4 lbs. You would only need 1 lb of dichlor to get your CYA in range.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Also remember that there is water on the under/inside of the ring that doesn't get good flow from the filter skimmer...Brushing that area will help because that is where the algae starts...My pool used to get cloudy...and it had a lot of particulate in the water. Many people just junk the pools filter and pump system and go an find an inexpensive 3/4 hp pump and then buy a sand filter to keep their intex pools clean...if you have the means...that is the best bet. That little pump and filter don't do the job...Intex recommends changing every two weeks...I changed mine two to three times per week. Much more expensive in a season than purchasing a sand filter and pump.

 

[spanky1]

Thanks so much for the advice. I actually bought the CYA last night, so I will add it to the pool. Also, tonight/tomorrow morning I will do the overnight FC test. Many days, I will run the pump 5 or 6 hours. I clean the cartridge regularly, and just bought a new one last night just to help things along.

Concerning the light brown floc that settles overnight, should I try to vacuum it out, or should I keep it stirred up and hope the filter cartridge will catch it? The vacuum I'm using is actually a 12-volt electric pump that I've connected to a long section of hose(the same style as comes with the Intex pump). I have a 10 foot roll of the stuff, so it works well. I also have the pool bottom attachment that comes with many pool maintenance kits. The material I'm vacuuming is easily sucked into the hose, but the problem is it's so lightweight that it just gets stirred up if you are very gentle.

Concerning the algae under the ring, I'm a bit confused here. The pool is a straight, vertical wall rather than a ring pool. Are you referring to the rim of the pool? There isn't a skimmer, but a filter inlet port about 10" below the water surface.

 

[JohnT]

Many days, I will run the pump 5 or 6 hours.

The pump should be run anytime nobody is in the pool. Even a big pump and filter combination needs more time than that to clear the water. The Intex rigs can barely keep up running 24 hours a day.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Thanks so much for the advice. I actually bought the CYA last night, so I will add it to the pool. Also, tonight/tomorrow morning I will do the overnight FC test. Many days, I will run the pump 5 or 6 hours. I clean the cartridge regularly, and just bought a new one last night just to help things along.

Concerning the light brown floc that settles overnight, should I try to vacuum it out, or should I keep it stirred up and hope the filter cartridge will catch it? The vacuum I'm using is actually a 12-volt electric pump that I've connected to a long section of hose(the same style as comes with the Intex pump). I have a 10 foot roll of the stuff, so it works well. I also have the pool bottom attachment that comes with many pool maintenance kits. The material I'm vacuuming is easily sucked into the hose, but the problem is it's so lightweight that it just gets stirred up if you are very gentle.

Concerning the algae under the ring, I'm a bit confused here. The pool is a straight, vertical wall rather than a ring pool. Are you referring to the rim of the pool? There isn't a skimmer, but a filter inlet port about 10" below the water surface.

Just assumed you had the ring pool where the walls build up as water goes in...That is what i was talking about...on the inside edge of the pool between the wall and the ring...is where all the algae starts.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Just keep brushing and let the filter catch the stuff. Change the filter every couple of days.

 

[spanky1]

Planning on doing overnight FC test. Also recommended to add CYA to pool.

Will CYA adversely affect FC test?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

No, the CYA addition should have no effect.

 

[spanky1]

Tonight, I added CYA. I tested for FC/TC/CC.

FC was 1.5
CC was .5
TC was 2.0

I planned on doing the overnight FC test, but I thought this was a bit low. Doing the drops, I only added 3 drops, so it'll be tough to see much change. I went ahead and added more bleach, and will test tomorrow evening.

After 24 hours, the pool is still cloudy, but I'm expecting this. In the past 24 hours, I've added Borax, bleach, baking soda, and CYA. Should I keep everyone out of the pool during the day? I add the chemicals at night and run the filter all night.

Thanks again for your much needed help.

 

[duraleigh]

I've added Borax, bleach, baking soda, and CYA.

Spanky,
First, welcome to the forum. Your quote above concerns me. It seems you have added those items without understanding exactly how they affect your pool water. If that's the case, you need to ask us a few more questions before adding things you may not need. How much of these did you add? Did you understand what the result would be?

I am not attempting to harass you at all but rather to get you started off on the right foot so you can enjoy that pool the rest of the summer. :lol:

 

[chadw]

Also remember that there is water on the under/inside of the ring that doesn't get good flow from the filter skimmer...Brushing that area will help because that is where the algae starts...My pool used to get cloudy...and it had a lot of particulate in the water. Many people just junk the pools filter and pump system and go an find an inexpensive 3/4 hp pump and then buy a sand filter to keep their intex pools clean...if you have the means...that is the best bet. That little pump and filter don't do the job...Intex recommends changing every two weeks...I changed mine two to three times per week. Much more expensive in a season than purchasing a sand filter and pump.

do you have any recommendations for a good, inexpensive sand filter and pump for an intex pool?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I've added Borax, bleach, baking soda, and CYA.

Spanky,
First, welcome to the forum. Your quote above concerns me. It seems you have added those items without understanding exactly how they affect your pool water. If that's the case, you need to ask us a few more questions before adding things you may not need. How much of these did you add? Did you understand what the result would be?

I am not attempting to harass you at all but rather to get you started off on the right foot so you can enjoy that pool the rest of the summer. :lol:

He stated his PH was 7.0 and TA was 70, and he mentioned above that he used the Pool Calc. So I think that's why he was using Borax and Baking soda....

However, Spanky, you described a "haze" in your first post. That's quite different from "cloudy". Cloudy indicates you should shock. Your shock level is now higher than 10 since you added CYA. What was your CYA Target? I'm guessing your shock level is now 12....

FC was 1.5
CC was .5
TC was 2.0

I planned on doing the overnight FC test, but I thought this was a bit low. Doing the drops, I only added 3 drops, so it'll be tough to see much change. I went ahead and added more bleach, and will test tomorrow evening.

Here's where you made a mistake. Yes, the FC was too low, but all you need to do is add more bleach and retest. You don't say exactly how much bleach you added, was it to reach shock level?

To perform the overnight test, you test, add bleach if necessary (it was) wait 30 minutes, and test again. Record that last result, and compare it to the morning's test.

If you didn't shock last night, you need to shock today.

 

[spanky1]

I've added Borax, bleach, baking soda, and CYA.

Spanky,
First, welcome to the forum. Your quote above concerns me. It seems you have added those items without understanding exactly how they affect your pool water. If that's the case, you need to ask us a few more questions before adding things you may not need. How much of these did you add? Did you understand what the result would be?

I am not attempting to harass you at all but rather to get you started off on the right foot so you can enjoy that pool the rest of the summer. :lol:

He stated his PH was 7.0 and TA was 70, and he mentioned above that he used the Pool Calc. So I think that's why he was using Borax and Baking soda....

That's correct. Reading on here, and using the pool calclulator was the basis for my additions.

However, Spanky, you described a "haze" in your first post. That's quite different from "cloudy". Cloudy indicates you should shock. Your shock level is now higher than 10 since you added CYA. What was your CYA Target? I'm guessing your shock level is now 12....

I'm a bit confused on terminology. Isn't the term hazy synonomous with cloudy, foggy, obscure, unclear? In the pool world, are these 2 words significantly different?
The reason for adding bleach again was because the FC was still very low.
[quote:1dgfayjf]
FC was 1.5
CC was .5
TC was 2.0

I planned on doing the overnight FC test, but I thought this was a bit low. Doing the drops, I only added 3 drops, so it'll be tough to see much change. I went ahead and added more bleach, and will test tomorrow evening.

Here's where you made a mistake. Yes, the FC was too low, but all you need to do is add more bleach and retest. You don't say exactly how much bleach you added, was it to reach shock level?

To perform the overnight test, you test, add bleach if necessary (it was) wait 30 minutes, and test again. Record that last result, and compare it to the morning's test.

If you didn't shock last night, you need to shock today.[/quote:1dgfayjf]

When you said I made a mistake, was the mistake part not testing again after 30 minutes? Or was it adding the CYA? It was actually pretty late, so I decided to just add bleach and let the filter circulate it overnight. Once I get the FC to a higher level, I'd like to do the overnight test.

In a brief summary, here's what I've done based on my initial reading posted in the first post in this thread:

-Based on initial test results, added bleach, borax, and baking soda at calculated amounts.
-Retested next day, but FC levels were still low, so I added more bleach. Also added CYA based on inital reading reading of <20.
-Leaving filter on round the clock, and changing or cleaning regularly.

I know that you guys will get me where I need to be. The patience part is the toughest.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Not testing after you added bleach. You could still have done the overnight test....even at 1.5, but then you're chlorine level would have dropped below the "min" recommended level. So adding bleach was the right thing to do, I guess "mistake" is too strong a word....my bad. If it was late, and you're not in a rush, no worries. Just make sure that the last thing you do tonight is test the FC level so that you have an accurate number to compare to in the a.m....

I guess the terminology confusion is mine...LOL - in my mind when you said "haze" I pictured a dully, mainly clear but kind of hazy pool, where you can still see the bottom but it doesn't have that "sparkle".

If it's cloudy to the point where you can't see the bottom or the liner pattern, then you should shock. If the FC doesn't hold overnight, you should shock.

I hope I'm making sense now - maybe I'm just to foggy these days....LOL

 

[duraleigh]

I think what I and FPM are both considering is whether or not you need to shock your pool to clear the haze, cloudy, foggy condition (sounds like the weather report to me)

Like FPM, I sorta' assumed haze might mean just bringing your FC up to normal levelas but I think you made need to shock. A very accurate Overnite FC loss will reveal the presence of organics in your pool and the need to shock.

That said, if you see your water appearance improving, I would suggest continue doing just as you are.

 

[spanky1]

Thanks so much for your help with a newbie. Tonight, I will most definitely get a fc reading to do an overnight test.

As far as my water being hazy vs. cloudy....let me clarify(had to do that, ha-ha). SInce I better understand your terminolgy, I'd definitely call it hazy since I can easily see the bottom.

At what level would I consider my bleach addition a "shock"?

 

[Nikki in IL]

"Shock" level is dependent on CYA level. Here's the link for the chart: pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock.

Hang in there...it really does sound like you're getting the basics down! Let us know how it goes.

 

[spanky1]

Just performed the overnight FC test, and here are the results:

Sat night.......9 fc
Sun morning...6 fc
CC is still .5

My plan is to target an fc level of 7. Is my overnight FC loss about normal, or is it a bit on the high side? I've been running the filter round the clock, and have been cleaning it a couple of times per day. It must be filtering things out that aren't quite visible to the naked eye. Every morning I've vacuumed the overnight settling and this seems to help quite a bit.

What is the brown stuff that settles out? Algae maybe? I disintegrates very easily with the slightest of water agitation. I didn't think the filter cartridge would catch this material, but obviously it does.

Thanks for the help and support.