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Thread: Help with ID'ing Stains

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    Help with ID'ing Stains

    Any help with ID'ing these stains and methods to remove them with draining the pool
    are very appreciated.


    http://www.travel-ascending.com/pool1.jpg

    http://www.travel-ascending.com/pool2.jpg

    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Welcome to TFP!

    Looks like you might have some calcium scaling. Can you scrape it off at all?

    Can you post a full set of test results? Especially need a calcium hardness reading.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    It would be helpful if you posted your specs in your signature, type of pool surface etc.,

    Please go to User Control Panel, top left, then Profile, then Edit Signature.

    Could be scale. Test results.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    It would be helpful if you posted your specs in your signature, type of pool surface etc.,

    Please go to User Control Panel, top left, then Profile, then Edit Signature.

    Could be scale. Test results.

    I will get a complete water testing on Monday.

    I think the PH has been running on the high side for some time.

    The stains encompass the entire surface but seem more predominant on the steps in the shallow end.

    Thanks
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    if you mean the pool store, do what you have to, but I can tell you leslies and pinch a penny both told me my CH was around 400 (pinch a penny said 399, I have no idea how they got that). when I discovered this website and did my own testing with my kit from www.tftestkits.net I found my CH was 625 and those white lines around my pool weren't misapplied plaster but calcium scaling. thanks pool store testing!
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Test Results:

    Total Chlorine 1
    Free Cholrine 1
    PH 7.6
    Calcium Harness 300
    Stabilizer 60
    Total Alkalinity 120

    I tried using some Vit C tabs on the steps with no visible affect.

    any idears
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Quote Originally Posted by twebdonny
    Test Results:

    Total Chlorine 1
    Free Cholrine 1
    PH 7.6
    Calcium Harness 300
    Stabilizer 60
    Total Alkalinity 120

    I tried using some Vit C tabs on the steps with no visible affect.

    any idears
    It's probably not related to your staining but your FC is way too low. Your FC should be at 5-8ppm continually to keep your pool troublefree.

    I agree that it looks like calcium precipitation but your test numbers, while just a little bit high, would not indicate calcium is your problem.

    Do you feel like you have had pH up in the 8's?

    Have you recently drained a portion of your pool water and refilled?

    I assume you cannot remove the stains by brushing. Can you get hold of a tri-chlor puck and hold it against the stain for a minute or so? If it's organic (not calcium) the tri-chlor will start to diminish the stain.

    Do the stains feel rough to the touch.....indicating calcium?

    Describe in detail what you've done to get rid of them to this point and whatever you can tell us about the characteristics of the stain and we'll go from there..
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by twebdonny
    Test Results:

    Total Chlorine 1
    Free Cholrine 1
    PH 7.6
    Calcium Harness 300
    Stabilizer 60
    Total Alkalinity 120

    I tried using some Vit C tabs on the steps with no visible affect.

    any idears
    It's probably not related to your staining but your FC is way too low. Your FC should be at 5-8ppm continually to keep your pool troublefree.

    I agree that it looks like calcium precipitation but your test numbers, while just a little bit high, would not indicate calcium is your problem.

    Do you feel like you have had pH up in the 8's?

    Yes I belive the PH has been in that area for a bit.

    Have you recently drained a portion of your pool water and refilled?

    No, usually just keep level up via rainwater

    I assume you cannot remove the stains by brushing. Can you get hold of a tri-chlor puck and hold it against the stain for a minute or so? If it's organic (not calcium) the tri-chlor will start to diminish the stain.

    Brushing seems to have no effect, I will try a puck, though I don't think its organic as we usually keep the chlorine
    levels up


    Do the stains feel rough to the touch.....indicating calcium?

    slightly rough, but hard to determine as diamondbrite surface is a bit rough to begin with

    Describe in detail what you've done to get rid of them to this point and whatever you can tell us about the characteristics of the stain and we'll go from there..
    Tried shocking, and brushing, basically to date with no results. Vit C tab on steps had no effect either.
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Everything you have added points to calcium scaling.

    If there is a part of the pool where you could actually uncover (expose to air) a small portion of the stain, you could try a 4:1 ratio of muriatic acid to water on it. It will foam up and disappear under the influence of the muriatic if it's calcium.

    I would suggest you try to get a puck to simply confirm it is not organic but I am pretty sure it's not.

    So, you can get a pro to drain down and do an acid wash. I have never done so but others here on the forum have. It's not cheap.

    You could attempt it yourself buit it is not an easy task and I would probably caution against it. One, perhaps two, members here have done it themselves and they may comment.

    If the calcium has not been there very long, you may try to lower the pH in the pool and see if you can get a reduction in the stains. I have no idea it will work but, if you are very careful, you can give it a shot. You would bring your pH down to 6.8 and, thru very, very careful monitoring hold it there for a week or so. If you let the pH slip to 6.6, that may well cause damage to your equipment as 6.8 is right on the borderline, IMO. If you play it safe and keep the pH in the low 7.'s, I doubt you'll see any effect.

    Those are the three options I can think of.....none of them great but I don't think you have other choices. Others may chime in with more info.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Thanks,

    Any hope that any of the stain reduction products might work?
    If so which one?

    Thanks
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Any hope that any of the stain reduction products might work?
    None that will have any effect on Calcium that I am aware of.

    Be cautious what the pool stores tell you. They will likely recommend something having no idea what your problem is.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Update,
    Had water tested at Leslie's today and all readings were normal, save the calcium harness
    which was actually a bit low. Rep has no idea what is causing my stains. Gonna take
    him the photos presented in message #1 to see if he can ID them and give me some
    ideas.
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Update, showed him the photos presented in message #1 and couldn't get any
    definitive answer.

    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Your CH is not low. I'm not surprised that the rep couldn't help.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong....can't he try a sock with dry acid, let it sit on the stain and see if that does anything? Which would indicate he needs to do an acid wash?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    A sock with dry acid could possibly damage the plaster if left in place too long. I would lower the water level below the top step and try a manual acid wash with a brush and some diluted muriatic acid on the stained areas of the top step. That will give you much more control over the process.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong....can't he try a sock with dry acid, let it sit on the stain and see if that does anything? Which would indicate he needs to do an acid wash?
    I would use the sock with dry acid for aobut 10 minutes as a test to see if it's scaling or I would use a piece of PVC pipe with muriatic acid poured in it to deliver acid to the stain to see what happens, both are valid procedures. The dry acid is easier and safer.

    Bad news, if either one works it means you need to acid wash.

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong....can't he try a sock with dry acid, let it sit on the stain and see if that does anything? Which would indicate he needs to do an acid wash?
    I would use the sock with dry acid for aobut 10 minutes as a test to see if it's scaling or I would use a piece of PVC pipe with muriatic acid poured in it to deliver acid to the stain to see what happens, both are valid procedures. The dry acid is easier and safer.

    Bad news, if either one works it means you need to acid wash.
    Would the Ascorbic Acid treatment have any effect if this seems to work?
    DJ
    11000 gallon in ground pool
    Gunite
    Diamondbrite coating

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    No. The AA treatment removes iron type metal staining, acid wash is where they drain the pool completely and use a muratic acid solution with like a pressure washer or something to blast the scale off.... from what I understand it's costly.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Tweebdonny,

    Your stains are similar to what I was experiencing up until this past monday when the pool company conducted an acid wash to remove my paster stains. Long story short, my pool is approximately 6 months old and during such stains were developing similar in color to yours. I conducted the tri-chlor test and the absorbic acid tests with negative results. I conducted the dry acid test in a sock, which you must be carefull when conducting, and it left a yellow colored streak from the test location to the deep end of the pool. Eventually the warranty dept. for the pool company inspected the stains and determined that the stains were "hydration stains". I was to waite until the winter to see if the stains went away, however, they progressed. So, as stated above my pool was drained and acid washed and the stains are no longer present. My pool is being refilled as we speak because the plaster shell had to remain empty so that the sun and heat could aid in the stain removal. Its been 101 degrees in Houston this week so the drying out of the "hydration stains" should have happened. I will post pics later this date, Im at work as of this post, of what my plaster looked liked when the pool was drained prior to the acid wash so you can see the extent of my problem prior to the acid wash. I hope this helps.
    13,500 gallon free form Pebble Tec pool- 2 skimmers
    Pentair Intelli-Flow filter pump, Pentair Intelli-Super Flo booster pump, waterfall pump, Del Ozone Eclipse 1 generator, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge filtration, Nature 2 XG Clear Vision, In-line Chlorinator, Polaris 280, Raypack heater, and Color Logic LED lights.

    Proud user of BBB, pool school, pool calculator, TF-100, and the advice of the friendly people here!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help with ID'ing Stains

    Quote Originally Posted by chris4150
    Tweebdonny,

    Your stains are similar to what I was experiencing up until this past monday when the pool company conducted an acid wash to remove my paster stains. Long story short, my pool is approximately 6 months old and during such stains were developing similar in color to yours. I conducted the tri-chlor test and the absorbic acid tests with negative results. I conducted the dry acid test in a sock, which you must be carefull when conducting, and it left a yellow colored streak from the test location to the deep end of the pool. Eventually the warranty dept. for the pool company inspected the stains and determined that the stains were "hydration stains". I was to waite until the winter to see if the stains went away, however, they progressed. So, as stated above my pool was drained and acid washed and the stains are no longer present. My pool is being refilled as we speak because the plaster shell had to remain empty so that the sun and heat could aid in the stain removal. Its been 101 degrees in Houston this week so the drying out of the "hydration stains" should have happened. I will post pics later this date, Im at work as of this post, of what my plaster looked liked when the pool was drained prior to the acid wash so you can see the extent of my problem prior to the acid wash. I hope this helps.
    Hey stranger....

    sorry to hear of this development. All that work....down the literal drain. Good luck, hope this fixes things once and for all.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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