How much is too much CC? Clorox question?

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B

bikeguy

0
Oct 19, 2016
16
Ottawa, ON, Canada
Hi,

New to forum. Been reading lots over a couple of days. Sorry for the long winded first question/post.

My question is how much CC is too much? I've read that its most likely due to binding with urea or other waste but I've been unable to drop the CC level. I had thought it would be eventually oxidized and filtered.

I tried MPS shock (a couple of times) and after the MPS level eventually dropped so I could measure the CC level, the level has been consistently (for over a week now) about 1ppm. I've also tried a chlorine shock (3-4x higher than the CC level, not the 10x ratio) and have been trying to keep the FC near 5-6ppm for a couple of days to see if its just a matter of time before the CC drops but I don't see that happening.

So, being late October, I'm wondering if I have to be concerned about the higher CC or just live with it until next fill (hopefully in the spring). How much CC is really too much?

As background (using a ColorQ Pro kit) I've got my pH to ~7.4/7.5, TA at ~90ppm, CH ~ 160, FC ~4.5, TC ~5.5, CYA ~65. Before anyone jumps on the ColorQ I can't easily the TF-100 in Canada although I will have one sitting at the border in a couple of weeks and I'll do a bench mark with the ColorQ.

So, I made the early mistake of listening to pool store expert blindly (I'm a EE so I really should have known better - shame on me). I added ~ 50ppm (I think, need to do the math) of borates, and a SPA enzyme (only twice, last time was 1.5 weeks ago). Is the enzyme somehow responsible for the higher CC?

I've only had the tub for a couple of weeks and after using dichlor the CYA was in the 70ish range so I quickly dumped the dichlor and grabbed some Clorox.

Now on to my second question.

Here in Ottawa, Canada I've tried 3 or 4 grocery stores and everyone carries Clorox Original but its UPC is not coming up on the Clorox site and nowhere on the label is the % Hypochlorite listed. It *appears* that its much lower than 6%. Using pool math (or actually HotTub&Pool calculator app -- great app), I almost had to double the quantity to get the expected improvement. Anyone ever hear of 3% Clorox?

I actually picked up a 10.8% jug from a pool store and the expected rise in FC was almost bang on so I'm a bit confused about the Clorox? Has the formulation changed recently, I've seen on the Clorox site there are a few other things actually in Clorox, Sodium polyacrylate, sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide, etc. Are all of these ok or has the formulation changed? Is it just for pH balancing?
 
MPS will appear as CC on most tests. That's one of the reasons we don't recommend its use. Sunlight and chlorine will work over time. We usually start looking for trouble when CC is over 0.5 but since you're not using one of the recommended test kits, it's hard to say what your reading really is.

We have heard from a number of Canadian members that the label requirements are a bit different there. Your experience with clorox seems to fit others that I've read. I seem to recall that there is a store called Canadian Tire that sells liquid chlorine for a reasonable price.
 
bikeguy said:
Hi,

New to forum. Been reading lots over a couple of days. Sorry for the long winded first question/post.

My question is how much CC is too much? I've read that its most likely due to binding with urea or other waste but I've been unable to drop the CC level. I had thought it would be eventually oxidized and filtered.

I tried MPS shock (a couple of times) and after the MPS level eventually dropped so I could measure the CC level, the level has been consistently (for over a week now) about 1ppm. I've also tried a chlorine shock (3-4x higher than the CC level, not the 10x ratio) and have been trying to keep the FC near 5-6ppm for a couple of days to see if its just a matter of time before the CC drops but I don't see that happening.

So, being late October, I'm wondering if I have to be concerned about the higher CC or just live with it until next fill (hopefully in the spring). How much CC is really too much?

As background (using a ColorQ Pro kit) I've got my pH to ~7.4/7.5, TA at ~90ppm, CH ~ 160, FC ~4.5, TC ~5.5, CYA ~65. Before anyone jumps on the ColorQ I can't easily the TF-100 in Canada although I will have one sitting at the border in a couple of weeks and I'll do a bench mark with the ColorQ.

So, I made the early mistake of listening to pool store expert blindly (I'm a EE so I really should have known better - shame on me). I added ~ 50ppm (I think, need to do the math) of borates, and a SPA enzyme (only twice, last time was 1.5 weeks ago). Is the enzyme somehow responsible for the higher CC?

I've only had the tub for a couple of weeks and after using dichlor the CYA was in the 70ish range so I quickly dumped the dichlor and grabbed some Clorox.

Now on to my second question.

Here in Ottawa, Canada I've tried 3 or 4 grocery stores and everyone carries Clorox Original but its UPC is not coming up on the Clorox site and nowhere on the label is the % Hypochlorite listed. It *appears* that its much lower than 6%. Using pool math (or actually HotTub&Pool calculator app -- great app), I almost had to double the quantity to get the expected improvement. Anyone ever hear of 3% Clorox?

I actually picked up a 10.8% jug from a pool store and the expected rise in FC was almost bang on so I'm a bit confused about the Clorox? Has the formulation changed recently, I've seen on the Clorox site there are a few other things actually in Clorox, Sodium polyacrylate, sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide, etc. Are all of these ok or has the formulation changed? Is it just for pH balancing?
Click to expand...


Are you using Spa Marvel as well? I have a new hot tub (Sept 1st) and used that and my CC was up to 2.5ppm and i could not seem to get rid of it. So i drained and refilled and seems better.

Though since 1 1/2 weeks ago (drain and Refill) my cc still have gone from 0 to .5 or 1ppm at times. I would shock, run with cover off. cc would go to zero, but they seem to come back very quickly. Not sure why. We do use the spa almost daily.

the FC has never been 0 or below 2.5 or 3ppm since my drain and refill.
 
CC is a normal byproduct of chlorine oxidizing bather waste. It is more noticeable (more likely to see on a test) in hot tubs than it is in pools because of the ratio of water to bathers/swimmers. CCs are oxidized by chlorine, the sun and out gassed to the air. After a soak add the correct amount of bleach, leave the pump running on low and the the cover open for 20 or 30 min. Retest and don't let FC drop to 0 before the next time you add more bleach.
 
Thanks everyone. I don't believe it's a question of slime after 2-3 weeks of use (new tub).

I understand regarding CC being a normal byproduct of waste oxidation but I had thought I could drive them to zero through MPS or a high FC (>3x CC level). I guess I'll try keeping the FC a little higher (6ppm range) and monitor to ensure it doesn't increase (and hopefully drops).
 
Thanks. The prices I've found for the K2006 here are ridiculous and ordering from within a few 100 km I could only find the K2005 kit. I looked on Amazon.ca two weeks ago and I could only get the 2005 as well. That said if I had found the link you just sent I would have ordered that two weeks ago.

I did find a ColorQ for a bit less than the other Taylor kits at a couple web stores so I went that way. My intention was to bench mark it against a friend's TF100 but instead I've decided to just order a TF100 to a UPS box and go get it next week so at that time I'll post those numbers.

The ColorQ Pro is the Gen 3 version and I plan on doing side by side tests for a month for comparison and I'll post the results.

I have done back to back to back tests already with the ColorQ on identical water samples and, contrary to what I've read it was very repeatable (~0.3ppm on FC, 0.1 of pH, +/- 4 or 5ppm on TA, ~ +/- 5-6 ppm on CH, +/- 5ppm on CYA). Can't speak for accuracy however. I'll have to wait and see.

Over the course of 2 weeks the CH has been within +/- 10ppm of average over 13 tests and my understanding is that CH is probably the most stable thing I can compare against.

Again, I can't speak to accuracy yet.
 
I don't believe it's a question of slime after 2-3 weeks of use (new tub).
Click to expand...

you are mistaken on this.

1. slime is already there in the pipes brand new from the stagnant water left over from when the manufacturer tested the tub for leaks.

2. 3 weeks after doing ahh-some treatment is when increased chlorine demand and cc's start showing up in my tub. It's happened multiple times.

No one else reports this so perhaps im way out in left field, but, ahh, like I said "if all else fails try that"
 

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Yes, there are definitely cases where brand new tubs have some gunk in the plumbing that needed to be flushed out. The process is to add Ahh-some, run the tub, drain it and refill it.
 
Did you just add and then drain the tub or is it an additive that you can use without draining.
Click to expand...

This four and a half minute video shows pretty good how it works...

Ahh-Some Bio-Cleaner Purging a 320 gallon Hot Tub - YouTube

The defoamer that they use in the video is not needed.

Make sure you don't let the scum produced dry on the rim of your spa, as it turns into a bubble-gum like consistency as it drys.

yes you have to drain the spa when doing this.
 
ant 83 said:
Make sure you don't let the scum produced dry on the rim of your spa, as it turns into a bubble-gum like consistency as it drys.

=.
Click to expand...


YES to this, as I just discovered. I had done the ahh-some treatment once before, and I must have immediately wiped off the ring of filfth it produced. This time around, I didn't immediately wipe off the filfth, and then I had to scrub off that stuff. ARGH!
 
I had to scrub off that stuff. ARGH!
Click to expand...

Last time I used a pool net, and scooped the foam out as it formed. I kept having to add more blue-goo to make more foam, to scoop out till all the brown stuff went away. At the end, I was more confident that I went as far as I could with the blue-goo.

My net is still kinda growdee from that.

I also noticed after draining, that some biofilm had formed in the recesses around the air-jets. I make sure to wipe in there now with my rag when I'm doing my routine wipe downs.
 
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