Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal? (SOLVED)

[pabeader]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

I'll put it this way, I do not trust my PB as much as a mosquito in a hot church.

Run without the filters? So, take the filters out of the capsule and then run it? Ugh, so much work to take that thing apart...

Yes. Considering the fact that you have dirt in your filter housing, your cartridges are most likely plugged up. Easiest way to test is to run without them.

 

[xyz]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

I still say it would be good to remove the eyeballs from the pool returns and the jets in the spa to check for debris behind them.

Agree. I think poodv's thinking is as follows.

1) debris got into the system, and some of that is stuck in the return pipes, possibly at a restriction point [e.g., the eyeballs]. So imagine the eyeballs had 1/4" holes in them. Not going to flow much, and going to make lots of back pressure.

2) now add just a little bit of air to the system

3) now crank the pump up all the way, and compress that air

4) turn off the pump

5) Compressed air expands. Since it CANT expand out the eyeballs [being all gummed up with rocks stones and sand], it goes where it is easier to go, out the intake/skimmer.

Makes sense.

If that is a 3 hp pump, the suction should be so strong that anything within an inch of it, including any plaster dust, should be completely and totally sucked up.

 

[setsailsoon]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

I can take the filter apart?

I'm looking at the flow curve, what is my Total dynamic Head? The pump is at the same elevation as the pool coping, the spa level is ~4ft above the pool.

Geosage,

Pump curves often express discharge pressure in units that are useful in performing fluid flow calculations. Feet of head is in feet of water. Divide ft of head by 2.25 to convert it to psi. (a column of water 2.25 ft tall exerts 1 psi on the bottom of the column).

Yes, you can remove the filter element for cleaning. Usually it splits open in the middle via removal of a clamp or a large plastic nut. Your manual should show how to do this and if you don't have it you can download it from their website. You need to learn how to do this so you can clean the filter anyway. You'll need to do this every 1-3 months depending on your pool volume, amount of debris that gets in and the size of the element. It is very easy to clean with a water hose and one of the comb attachments. Takes me about 20 min. With proper maintenance the element will last years. Filter companies claim the pressure can be allowed to increase to 25% of clean filter pressure. Most on this site allow it to go up 10%. Personally I go somewhere in the middle. Your filter works better when it is a little dirty.

On your pool/spa level question. Water in the spa and pool will reach the same level if they're connected and the pump is not operating. If the spa is 4' higher level than the pool and less than 4' deep then it will be empty when they equalize.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[mas985]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Feet of head to PSI is a factor of 2.31 not 2.25.

 

[Geosage]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

So with the spa being 4ft above the pool/pump. that's 4ft/2.31 = 1.73PSI... so, I guess the way to look at it then, is that, IF (I know I shouldn't and I wont, but IF) I have the intake set at 50/50, and the pump set at high 3450RPM, that suction can not over take 1.73PSI from the spa... being the spa drains PAST the pump and into the pool (via the skimmer) during operation. To me this indicates I have very little to no suction?

 

[mas985]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

As I said 3 tines now, there is NO reason to split the suction. It does NOTHING. Spillover is all you need.

 

[Geosage]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

As I JUST stated, I will NOT being doing it. I'm merely using it as an example to determine if there is a problem with my suction.

 

[mas985]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

The reason you have no suction is because the pressure is so high and head loss is so high that flow rate is very low and low flow rate means low suction.

I don't think you ever answered if you cleaned the filter recently.

 

[setsailsoon]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Feet of head to PSI is a factor of 2.31 not 2.25.

Correct, I used a quick estimate from my rules of thumb... 1 atmosphere =33' of water = 14.7 psi instead of looking it up. For most practical quick estimates this works fine. But your number is better.

Chris

 

[Geosage]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

The reason you have no suction is because the pressure is so high and head loss is so high that flow rate is very low and low flow rate means low suction.

Is the pressure so high? The spa has a PSI of 1.73, is that high? I have no clue personally. To me it seems negligible and that it would not affect the suction of the pump when set at 3450RPM. Again though, I don't know. If 1.73PSI is high and enough to overpower the suction of the Pump at high, then so be it.

I don't think you ever answered if you cleaned the filter recently.

Filter was cleaned yesterday, we took it apart and took the photos of the sand, hosed off the filters, they were pure white and nothing came off of them. That's as recent as I can get being the pool was just filled on Saturday.

 

[JamesW]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

The problem is that the returns are completely clogged, which prevents all water flow. Therefore, there will be no suction at the pool or spa.

I would not run this pump with the clogged lines.

 

[setsailsoon]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

So with the spa being 4ft above the pool/pump. that's 4ft/2.31 = 1.73PSI... so, I guess the way to look at it then, is that, IF (I know I shouldn't and I wont, but IF) I have the intake set at 50/50, and the pump set at high 3450RPM, that suction can not over take 1.73PSI from the spa... being the spa drains PAST the pump and into the pool (via the skimmer) during operation. To me this indicates I have very little to no suction?

You probably have very little suction pressure. That doesn't matter so long as you have no air leaking in. Your pump suction comes from the skimmer and/or your pool drain, spa drain, suction cleaner fitting depending on how your valves are set. All of these are below the water level. If your suction head were inadequate you would have cavitation and no discharge pressure or very low and erratic discharge pressure. You don't have any symptoms of a suction problem. You should focus on the discharge side of the pump. Have you checked the items I and others asked about? I'm pretty sure you'll find the problem there.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

The problem is that the returns are completely clogged, which prevents all water flow. Therefore, there will be no suction at the pool or spa.

I would not run this pump with the clogged lines.

Good point! The pump seals are cooled by water flow. No flow, no cooling... another reason to check the simple stuff and logical stuff first.

 

[setsailsoon]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Is the pressure so high? The spa has a PSI of 1.73, is that high? I have no clue personally. To me it seems negligible and that it would not affect the suction of the pump when set at 3450RPM. Again though, I don't know. If 1.73PSI is high and enough to overpower the suction of the Pump at high, then so be it.


Filter was cleaned yesterday, we took it apart and took the photos of the sand, hosed off the filters, they were pure white and nothing came off of them. That's as recent as I can get being the pool was just filled on Saturday.

Geo,

I'm guessing you didn't run the pump with the filters removed. This is an easy way to completely eliminate the filter. If you got sand in the bottom it could be anywhere downstream... including the return fittings as one other person has suggested. I suggest you follow his technique to check.

Chris

 

[Geosage]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Have you checked the items I and others asked about? I'm pretty sure you'll find the problem there.

I was in the spa and pool tonight, I stuck my finger in the 'eyes' as far as I could and there was no blockage there in any of them.

Per- Pool School - Suction Side Air Leaks

1. I checked the pump basket lid, it is as tight as can be (it is brand new after all).
2. I checked the drain plug, it is tight and the O-ring seems fine.
3. No noticed cracked PVC joints above the surface.
4. I listened to the valves, other than some variable noise when switching them over nothing noticeable?
5. No whirlpool in the skimmer.
6. My pump "spits" a TON of water out of the skimmer (and in fact today after vacuuming, when turning it off spit a ton of dirt and leaved back into the pool) when turning it off. Does that indicate there's an "air leak" in the skimmer??

I would not run this pump with the clogged lines.

Pump has been running at 3450RPM 9 hours a day per what the start-up guy left it as and told us to do. Should I stop the program for tomorrow morning? He called the PB about the lack of flow in the spa and the plumber is coming out tomorrow some time.

Good point! The pump seals are cooled by water flow. No flow, no cooling... another reason to check the simple stuff and logical stuff first.

There's cooling involved now as well?? What does 'cooling' mean?

 

[setsailsoon]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Is the pressure so high? The spa has a PSI of 1.73, is that high? I have no clue personally. To me it seems negligible and that it would not affect the suction of the pump when set at 3450RPM. Again though, I don't know. If 1.73PSI is high and enough to overpower the suction of the Pump at high, then so be it.


Filter was cleaned yesterday, we took it apart and took the photos of the sand, hosed off the filters, they were pure white and nothing came off of them. That's as recent as I can get being the pool was just filled on Saturday.

Geo,

Just to clarify a point that I think will help. You don't need any suction pressure. These are self-priming pumps. They are often mounted above the pool level so this means whenever you start the pool there is no suction pressure. Some pumps require positive suction pressure (they call this net positive suction head or NPSH). Yours does not have this requirement.

You have a lot of experts on here advising the same thing. They really do know what they're talking about. So I'd strongly advise you follow their recommendations.

I certainly mean no disrespect and I really do hope this helps.

Chris

 

[pooldv]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

A lot of people here are giving you good advice, including some of our top pump experts. You need to decide if you want to do the things that are being suggested or not. We cannot keep saying the same things repeatedly and you keep asking the same questions. We aren't making any forward progress here.

You need to either clean the filter cartridges by hosing them off or run the pump with filters removed and make note of the filter pressure. If that doesn't dramatically lower the filter pressure then you need to remove the eyeballs from your pool returns, they just unscrew, and turn the pump on. Your problem can only be in the filter or in the return lines to the pool. There is nowhere else that a problem could cause the symptoms you are having. Ignore the spa right now and focus on the pool.

Do those two things and report back your results.

 

[JamesW]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Circulation Dye Test
Maybe try the above test to see if you're actually getting any water flow.

Maybe install a Flowmeter to see what your flow rate is.

Can you feel any water coming out of any return?

 

[Geosage]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

The plumber showed up this morning. He cut the aerator pipe and blew compressed air into it. He said the filter should not be running at 37PSI and should be below 20. He too said to clean the filter. We told him how took the filters out and they were spotless (and that we did hose them down). We told him about the handfuls of sand in the bottom and he said that's not an issue.

He said the pump gushing water out of the skimmer when being turned off is due to the pool being overfilled a couple inches.

He fixed our vertical descents and they look like the photos now... (not uneven and broken flow).

Some more grit came out of the spa jets (I photographed it, just some bits) when he had flow coming out of them, but they're still not blowing at full power.

He left. The PB owner called 45 minutes later. He said that it is the heater that is causing blockage, that the system is probably running at 5-10% power, and to not run the system right now until it is resolved (he said to keep up on the start up chemistry). He is calling the warranty for the heater and will have a guy out in a couple days though he says the heater warranty is backed up a week or so.

 

[Geosage]

Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

My feeling now is that the heating element is clogged... the plumber removed one of the jets from inside the spa wall and there was nothing clogging it at all. The only other place the pipe restricts that small is in the heating element... which would make sense on why the PB is saying it's the 'heater'. He said in his years of building pools, he has never had an issue with a heater.

Need to remember, I'm 3 DAYS into learning about this stuff and still know nothing, but if anything, I'd bet these 6 tubes are clogged with grit-