Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal? (SOLVED)

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Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

I guarantee you there is not.

OK, I was JUST taking photos for you, and I JUST noticed that the IN and OUT pipes are on the WRONG sides (in is out) and (out is in) at least according to the heater diagram... so the pipes are installed backwards. Does this make a difference?

I'll get you your photos, lemme upload them.
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

If you really don't have a way to bypass the heater, I would seriously consider having it added. I know in my case the heater was ruined by a previous renter and the bypass was very helpful.
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

We just spoke with the PB, he is having the plumber come back out to flip the "filter pipe" to the IN on the heater and the "return pipe" to the OUT on the heater.

While he's doing this, we should ask him to put a bypass valve eh? The manual recommends it if the GPM exceeds GPM of 120, I don't know if ours does that...

I'm excited! Think switching the pipes around will solve the problem?
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Geosage said:
My feeling now is that the heating element is clogged... the plumber removed one of the jets from inside the spa wall and there was nothing clogging it at all. The only other place the pipe restricts that small is in the heating element... which would make sense on why the PB is saying it's the 'heater'. He said in his years of building pools, he has never had an issue with a heater.

Need to remember, I'm 3 DAYS into learning about this stuff and still know nothing, but if anything, I'd bet these 6 tubes are clogged with debris
Click to expand...

That is a good theory! :thumleft:


Geosage said:
I guarantee you there is not.

OK, I was JUST taking photos for you, and I JUST noticed that the IN and OUT pipes are on the WRONG sides (in is out) and (out is in) at least according to the heater diagram... so the pipes are installed backwards. Does this make a difference?

I'll get you your photos, lemme upload them.
Click to expand...

Agree that adding a heater bypass loop is a good idea when they replumb the heater correctly. I don't know if there is more flow restriction if plumbed backwards.
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

I'm looking at the diagram and I'm wondering what the parts listed as 8 do. I can't find a description for them. I sure hope switching the pipes fixes it for you. In some cases it really doesn't matter but you never know. I would think about the bypass, because if the heater needs service you can still run the pump and stuff.
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Here you go- PENTAIR

#8 is a Manifold bypass valve

I will ask the plumber about a bypass valve when he is here (if I am here, have things to do this afternoon). The manual says to have a bypass valve is 120 gpm is exceeded and to 'adust the valve accordingly'.

Here is a diagram (user friendly for easy use by family) I'm working on. This is exactly as the plumbing is set up (but it is not to scale or the 'exact' shape etc.)

Equipment_diagram_FINAL_2.png
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

They are only suggesting it if your flow rate is too high. We are suggesting it for ease of repair if the heater needs work. You never want to leave a pool without circulating water for any extended period of time. Even a few days can make a difference.

- - - Updated - - -

The bypass I'm suggesting is actually made up of two valves and can completely stop all water going to the heater.
 
Problem has been solved. It was due to the pipes being installed backwards into the heater. From digging into some more of the equipment diagrams of the heater I discovered there are a few valves that would have severely restricted flow... low and behold, flipping the input/outputs solved the problem of everything...

- The spa blows with jets now and strong power, the pool returns as well.
- The pump is noticeably quieter.
- The cascade now operates at >1500 less RPM than before.
- The pool has noticeable suction.
- The pump no longer evacuates water onto the deck via the skimmer when shut down.
- Even though I wont do it, when I set the intake to 50,50 and return 100 spa, the spa does not drain, it cascades.
- The system is running at least 10 PSI less-
IN- 100 pool, OUT- 100 pool - 23.5PSI
IN- 100 pool, OUT- 100 spa - 23.5PSI
IN- 100 spa, OUT- 100 spa - 24.5PSI

All it took was taking this-
PA250451.jpg


and turning it into this-
PA250453.jpg


The main question I guess is, why after ~2 months of the equipment being hooked up... and the plumber being here 2 months ago, last week, and this morning... the start-up guy being here on Saturday... and my 'project manager' (I wont kid, she was on site maybe <20 minutes total the entire build)... NONE of them noticed it...

I'm going to call Pentair's help line tomorrow and get some comments from them on if running the system backwards for ~30 hours over 3 days could have caused any foreseeable damage (stress on the pump, stress on the heater) and will notify the PB... but hey, the system WORKS!
 

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Running backwards through the heater forced all the water to go through the heat exchanger. Normally some of the water is bypassed through the manifold. It probably would not do any harm for such a short period of time.
 
I would suggest reviewing the planned operating speeds. You probably don’t need to be running at full speed with that pump.

The pump should be operated at speeds sufficient to do what you need, but not more.

Excess speed costs in power, system stress, noise and other ways. Twice the speed costs about 6 times the power.
 
jblizzle said:
Not only did they screw that up, but the plumber used non schedule 40 PVC fittings. Tsk tsk
Click to expand...
Hmmm, how can you tell? Concerning if it's thin wall... splits would not be fun...

mas985 said:
Running backwards through the heater forced all the water to go through the heat exchanger. Normally some of the water is bypassed through the manifold. It probably would not do any harm for such a short period of time.
Click to expand...
Good to hear.

JamesW said:
I would suggest reviewing the planned operating speeds. You probably don’t need to be running at full speed with that pump.
Click to expand...
Planned operating speeds? The start up guy has it running at 3450 RPM for most of the day and then 3100 RPM for a bit.
 
I may instead work on the system myself and see what needs to be done to get the system functioning properly each day. The start up guy thought the system was running normal at 40psi... and that water gushing out of the skimmer was normal... and of course didn't catch the pipes were installed incorrectly... simply put, I don't trust him.
 
Good news! Nice job sticking with it and solving the problem. :goodjob:

I run my VS pump at 1100 rpm for skimming, filtering and making chlorine with the SWG, it uses 150 watts. It runs at 1950 rpm for solar heating and heat pump heating the water. 2500 rpm is the highest I run mine for quick skimming of leaves or more suction to the drain when brushing.
 
Re: Filter pressure guage reads 40 psi when running, normal?

Geosage said:
I guarantee you there is not.

OK, I was JUST taking photos for you, and I JUST noticed that the IN and OUT pipes are on the WRONG sides (in is out) and (out is in) at least according to the heater diagram... so the pipes are installed backwards. Does this make a difference?

I'll get you your photos, lemme upload them.
Click to expand...

George,

YOU'VE NAILED IT! I just finished reading this thread....I started to chime in earlier but didn't because the guys and gals here are experts. They have helped me with every request. However, as I was reading your thread, you were exhibiting the exact same problem I was when my pool first went online. High filter pressure (37-39psi) and low return pressure. In the beginning, I was so disappointed with both my spa everflow and the bubblers...my wife called them dribblers....Pool Start-up guy said pressure was prob. because it needed backwashing...we did...no change. Then he said that different pools have different pressures....

The epiphany came when he was showing me how to work the heater and it would fire up and shut off within seconds. PB called the heater warranty guy out and after he left (I wasn't there) I called him and he said "You need to call your PB"....not another word....Called PB and he said "I have a plumber coming out Saturday.....Saturday came and the Plumber AND PB came out...knew at that point something was up....I overhead PB tell plumber he had plumbed the heater backwards....after cutting PVC and rerouting, everything worked....It was like getting a new pool! Bubblers shot up like they were supposed to...pressure dropped from 39 to 25psi on 3450 rpm....My wife said, "we got a new pool'!

It took 3 weeks from fill for me to get it corrected...you are way ahead!

Good luck!
 
Well, a weird and interesting story for sure! Also interesting that another poster had basically the same experience.

Did you get heater bypass valves plumbed in while they were correcting the error? Or did you not see a need for the bypass function (question addressed to the original poster)?
 

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