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Thread: Inherited pool

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    Inherited pool

    Hi everybody,

    I've been browsing the forums for a week or two and decided to join in Here's the backstory, and a long post:

    We inherited the pool with the house about 10 months ago and have had weekly pool service for the past 7 or 8 months. The pool has its share of problems, leaking filter, leaking pump, broken ATO, old plaster etc. After skipping a few cleanings and a green tinged pool, the PB came and shocked it 4 weeks ago (ish), came back 3 weeks ago and cleaned, then refused to come until we repaired the leaking filter. They quoted us $1200 to replace it lol. The previous PB was flakey as well so I decided to take over the work myself and I plan on addressing the problems.

    Item 1: Pool Chemistry
    I've been using TF-100 test kits and here are my measurements, all taken in the evening:

    Oct 14
    FC 15.5ppm
    pH 7.5
    TA 120
    CH 750ppm
    CYA 70-80ppm
    CC 0ppm
    Removed the floating doser (it still had some partially dissolved tablets in it)

    Oct 15
    FC 15.5ppm
    CC 0ppm
    CYA 80ppm

    Oct 16
    FC 16.5ppm
    CC 0ppm
    CYA 80ppm

    I haven't added anything to the pool. The only change has been on Oct 14 I removed the doser and on Oct 16 I cleaned the filter and ran the pump with the clean filter. So my questions are:

    a) Why hasn't FC dropped....and is the increase on Oct 16 error? In retrospect I should have taken a second reading. We'll see tonight's reading.
    b) Should I do a partial drain to bring down CYA?
    c) The water is cloudy and I think it's from suspended particles. It was clear and then I brushed the walls and ran the filter....but obviously the filter isn't working right.
    d) CH looks awful high, but we also have really hard water here. What's normal for Phoenix pools?

    Item 2: Leaking filter
    It was leaking water heavily from between the tank and base above the inlet so I took the tank off. The filter was completely green and had a thick sludge build up at the bottom. I cleaned the filter, reassembled with the air line and a new O-ring lubricated with vaseline. It continued to leak heavily in the same location. I've tried rotating the tank, reseating the O-ring, rotating the filter cartridge, and rotating the clamp. None have any effect and the leak is the same amount at the same location. I don't see any cracks in the base.

    The filter itself is damaged and should be replaced but this won't address the leak issue. My best guess is the base has a warp in it that I can't see or the clamp needs replacing. But at this point, I'm looking at $90 for a new filter and whatever other replacement parts. Should I just buy a new cartridge filter and oversize it while I'm at it? I'll need to relocate the filter if I oversize since I don't have enough space for a larger diameter filter.

    Item 3: Leak pump at outlet
    Slow leak, and something I'll address once I get the pool chemistry and filter sorted out. Also will replace with 2 speed motor.

    Item 4: ATO
    Another thing to fix at a later date. Currently shut off.

    Thanks for reading!
    18000 gallon 3.5' to 9' plaster IG pool with no water features, Sta-Rite Posi-Flo 135 TXR Cartridge, Sta-Rite single speed pump with 1hp Century 56Y frame motor
    Pool/filter/pump installed around 1985
    TF-100 test kit

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Inherited pool

    Welcome To TFP... A great place to be...

    For the filter leak, it could be you are just not getting the band tight enough. It takes a lot more than just being snug.

    Can you post two pics... one showing the ring connection nut when leaking and another one showing your equipment pad.

    I may be the only one on this site that does not know, but I have no idea what an ATO is...

    Good job on getting the TF-100.. FC can't got up on its own, so either a testing error or something is still adding chlorine.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP5200 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2.

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Inherited pool

    a) Keep checking. I had to cut my SWG off for a while with the cooler weather and it now down to 1/3 rate in about the last 1.5 months.
    b) You can. Only really helps if you need to SLAM. You can do it around Feb. before we start to warm back up.
    d) Check the CH of your fill water. AZ water can be high. It is normal here and is no problem if you keep your pH in range.
    13k Pebbletec Pool/Spa, Hayward Ecostar, SGS Breeze 540 SWG, Pentair C&C 420 cartridge, Pentair MasterTemp Heater, Caretaker system, TF-100 & Taylor K1766 test kits

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Are you taking a rubber mallet and smacking the band as you tighten? IOW, tighten a little, tap [firmly] all the way around the band with the rubber hammer, tighten more, tap, tighten more tap, etc.
    Jon -- 28kgal, IG, AquaBright, Attached Spa, ~1990, Quad DE 80, Easytouch8, IntelliFloVS-3050, Intellichlor60, IntelliPh, Dolphin DX6, City Water, K-2006/TF-100, SpeedStir, SampleSizer, San Diego, CA

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Hey guys,

    I'll get some pics up of the filter in the next few days. As for the clamp, the instructions on the filter state it should be tightened till the ends are 1/4"-1/2" apart and to 30 in-lb torque (I don't have a torque wrench at the moment). I have it down to around 1/4" gap and I was thumping the clamp all around as I tightened it (it shifted as I thumped it and I was able to tighten the clamp further). I kept thumping around and tightening until I felt it wasn't tightening further with additional thumps lol.

    ATO - automatic top off....I don't know if it's the same acronym in the pool world but in hobby aquariums that's what they use.

    The equipment pad does have cracks in it. I would love to tear the whole pad out, pour a new bigger one, and install a new filter and pump/motor in one go but have budget constraints.

    I'll update this thread with the latest chem readings tonight. Good idea on measuring the source water - I'll do that as well.

    Thanks
    18000 gallon 3.5' to 9' plaster IG pool with no water features, Sta-Rite Posi-Flo 135 TXR Cartridge, Sta-Rite single speed pump with 1hp Century 56Y frame motor
    Pool/filter/pump installed around 1985
    TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Inherited pool

    While it won't necessarily cause immediate damage, you'll want to avoid the use of petroleum products on o-rings and other rubber parts.
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Century Centurion 1.5 HP 3450 rpm pump, TF-100 kit

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollercoastr View Post
    While it won't necessarily cause immediate damage, you'll want to avoid the use of petroleum products on o-rings and other rubber parts.
    I was going to comment on the same thing, but a review of the Sta-Rite filter manual shows it actually calls out Vaseline as an "approved" O-Ring lubrication.. I'll stick with standard pool lube..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP5200 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2.

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    Re: Inherited pool

    I recently got some Teflon magic lube and I really like the stuff. Everything can practically be lightly hand tight without leaking. Maybe there is a thread on o-ring grease somewhere.
    Jon -- 28kgal, IG, AquaBright, Attached Spa, ~1990, Quad DE 80, Easytouch8, IntelliFloVS-3050, Intellichlor60, IntelliPh, Dolphin DX6, City Water, K-2006/TF-100, SpeedStir, SampleSizer, San Diego, CA

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Yes, the filter instructions said vaseline was acceptable. I'll get a legitimate grease soon.

    You won't believe it but my FC readings were 17.5ppm and 17ppm this evening. Didn't get a chance to test CH of my tap.

    I've been bringing the pool water inside in a plastic cup and letting it sit while i run errands. Could this throw off results? I doubt it since it sits at most an hour inside.

    Thanks!
    18000 gallon 3.5' to 9' plaster IG pool with no water features, Sta-Rite Posi-Flo 135 TXR Cartridge, Sta-Rite single speed pump with 1hp Century 56Y frame motor
    Pool/filter/pump installed around 1985
    TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Inherited pool

    I do have to ask.........the cup you have the pool water in..........is it the same cup you use to add chlorine? We had one member that did that. Of course it "added" FC from the residue.

    Let us see your equipment pad so we can see what is what.

    Is your floater OUT of the pool or just closed?

    Best to do the tests asap after you take it out of the pool.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Hi Kim,


    No, in fact I haven't added any chlorine. I simply removed the floating dispenser from the water and it's sitting on the patio. When I took it out there were still some undissolved tablets in there.


    I'll do the tests today at the poolside.

    pics of equipment area
    Attached Images Attached Images
    18000 gallon 3.5' to 9' plaster IG pool with no water features, Sta-Rite Posi-Flo 135 TXR Cartridge, Sta-Rite single speed pump with 1hp Century 56Y frame motor
    Pool/filter/pump installed around 1985
    TF-100 test kit

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post
    Maybe there is a thread on o-ring grease somewhere.
    Yes there is, in forums about: pools, boats, cars, trucks, cycles, plumbing, sprinklers, grilling, and I'm only guessing on this one, but I'd bet on Hot Air Ballooning too.

    There's some controversy from the general public, but it would probably go away if mfr's would stop recommending petroleum grease on rubber. Last winter I waged a frustrating battle against a leaky 20 year old plastic tubing T-fitting that turned out to be caused a hardened o-ring. (it never lost its shape, so I replaced and fought everything surrounding it until I picked up a 59 replacement)
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Century Centurion 1.5 HP 3450 rpm pump, TF-100 kit

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Inherited pool

    Okay I see the pics............so what is the black box in the first pic? It looks like it has an outlet under it? (I know what I THINK it is but...)

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Stona,

    Even if you can't do it all at once, I recommend that you plan on replacing the filter with a much bigger one, and replacing your single speed pump with a variable speed, or a two speed pump. Doing this will allow you run your pump at a low RPM most of the time, saving on your electrical bill, and having a bigger filter will mean you will only have to clean the cartridge about twice a year, saving you time.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP5200 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2.

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    Re: Inherited pool

    You're absolutely right, I should replace the equipment while I'm at it...just reluctant. Does pool equipment ever go on sale? (Black Friday?).

    Anyways, here's what's under the black box. I'm a bit confused since I thought power came up the black line but I also see lines down the green conduit. *shrug*
    Attached Images Attached Images
    18000 gallon 3.5' to 9' plaster IG pool with no water features, Sta-Rite Posi-Flo 135 TXR Cartridge, Sta-Rite single speed pump with 1hp Century 56Y frame motor
    Pool/filter/pump installed around 1985
    TF-100 test kit

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Inherited pool

    That is what I thought it would be........power box. Not going even try to help with what goes where and why though LOL! I will let someone that KNOWS that kind of thing take that on!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Hi,

    Took two FC readings today and both showed 13ppm.

    I did some research and I'm thinking of replacing the pump with a Pentair 3/4hp 2speed Superflo model 34111 (need to confirm I have 115V @ the pump) and using a 325sqft hayward or pentair cartridge filter. Does this sound good for my pool? If I have 230V I would use the 1hp model (model 340042).

    Anybody with thoughts on the powerbox Kim pointed out? We have a pad where old spa/hot tub equipment used to be and it also has the same set up - i.e. mainline coming in and a power box on a separate line.

    Last question - Pentair or Hayward 325sqft filter opinions? Pentair costs a fair bit more but I often see people say you can't go wrong with either.

    Thanks!

    Edit:

    What about these pump options...the Hayward Maxflo (SP2307X102) can be had for around $400 and the Super Pumper (SP2607X102S) for a similar price to the Pentair Superflo (~$480).
    18000 gallon 3.5' to 9' plaster IG pool with no water features, Sta-Rite Posi-Flo 135 TXR Cartridge, Sta-Rite single speed pump with 1hp Century 56Y frame motor
    Pool/filter/pump installed around 1985
    TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Inherited pool

    The Maxflo and Superflo are similar pumps. Same with the filters. You'll be happy with either brand. 3/4hp, 2 speed is a good option.

    In that box you have 110v, not 220v. What black line? Is there black conduit coming in to the gray box? What is in the gray box? An outlet? Looks to me like 110v supply is coming in the green conduit which feeds the outlet below it and then on to the pump timer.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Inherited pool

    That's a pool light junction box, all the electrical comes through what looks like a gfci recptacle underneath. One conduit line to pool timer the other to pool light

    - - - Updated - - -

    Those sta-rite filter bases are known to leak out the bottom. When you put back together make sure everything is dry around the filter, start up and check to see where water is coming from

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    Re: Inherited pool

    Quote Originally Posted by stona View Post
    ATO - automatic top off....I don't know if it's the same acronym in the pool world but in hobby aquariums that's what they use.
    Ahh, there we go. We call them auto-fills here. No worries.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    PentAir WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, PentAir CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, PentAir SunLite, AutoFill.
    Kreepy Krauly Cruiser, TF-100 with SpeedStir. :D

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