Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

  1. Back To Top    #1
    shane4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    69

    Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    Hi All

    That time of year in Southern Ontario to pack up the pool

    Every year I remove the sand filter drain cap and let the water drain out. Sand has never come out.

    This season I had some issues with the filter and opened it up to check a few things. I was going to run a hose into the filter and skim off any debris. Anyways, the laterals got "disturbed" so I had to empty the filter. While I was in there I replaced broken laterals and replaced the sand as well. When emptying the filter housing I saw no specific part that acted as a filer, plug or strainer to prevent sand from emptying out of the drain. So, I filled the filter with new sand. I replaced the sand only because I was in there and I expected the sand to have never been replaced (15+ years?). It was not a huge expense so that is why I went ahead.

    Anyways, I read somewhere that because the sand is wet it pretty much stays in place and that is why it does not come out the drain when the cap is removed.

    I closed the pool down this weekend and when I opened the drain cap, sand came flowing out with the water like a mud slide. It would not let up. The sand kept flowing.

    I managed to wrap and tie some cloth around the drain neck to allow the water to drain but hold back the sand.

    Did I fail to replace something when I changed the sand?

    If not, does anyone have ideas why sand is emptying out the drain.

    Thanks
    16' x 32' IG, vinyl, 80k litre (21k gal), "lazy L" (kidney like at deep, squared off at shallow) shallow 3', deep 8', Hayward sand filter 300 lbs, 20gal/min Mod S-244T, Pentair Superflow VS 1.5 HP Model 342001, Raypak Heater 266K BTU Mod P-R266A-EN-C, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, diving board, Southern Ontario (Canada) climate.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    139

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    see page 5. did you perhaps remove or damage the drain screen [not labeled as such, but you can see the part that the cap and o-ring screw onto.]
    https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/man...220T-S244T.pdf
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, switching to TFP chlorine in 2016

  3. Back To Top    #3

    TFP Guide
    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Howell, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,162

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    How much sand are we talking about. Personally, I do not have experience with this, but my friend had his sand replaced. For a few days, sand entered the pool and it eventually stopped. it is possibly there is a drain screen, but I would suspect if the drain screen is still there (and there is one) as I have never seen one, that maybe the sand is too fine.

    Did you purchase sand for a pool filter? There was an article a long time ago time and I will try to find it.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Frog Mineralizer System (EMPTY) - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Pool Company tests water (NO LONGER) TF-100 TEST KIT
    Date of Build is 11-2013

  4. Back To Top    #4
    shane4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    69

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    Quote Originally Posted by pookiesunshine View Post
    see page 5. did you perhaps remove or damage the drain screen [not labeled as such, but you can see the part that the cap and o-ring screw onto.]
    https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/man...220T-S244T.pdf
    Hmmmm. As per the diagram the parts are not individually labelled but I suspect the little ring in the 9a diagram is the washer. The piece to the left is the cap. The piece to the right before the neck of the drain is something mine does not have.

    So I guess there is a missing part. My guess is the previous owner lost that. Since the sand was so old it most likely clumped or channelled and therefore never came out the drain when emptying it. Now that I have replaced the sand it is flowing like a river.

    I wonder what the odds are that this piece is still available from Hayward.

    Thanks for the input.

    Anyone else with a sand filter know of this screen/stopper piece??????

    I wonder if a nylon screen over the drain hole from the inside would work. If I line a larger area than the opening to the drain with a screen and then filled the sand back in would the screen stay in place? Or would the flowing of water swirl everything around inside and move the screen. Or would the sand hold it in place? Anyone have any ideas?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    Did you purchase sand for a pool filter? .
    Yes sand came from pool store.
    16' x 32' IG, vinyl, 80k litre (21k gal), "lazy L" (kidney like at deep, squared off at shallow) shallow 3', deep 8', Hayward sand filter 300 lbs, 20gal/min Mod S-244T, Pentair Superflow VS 1.5 HP Model 342001, Raypak Heater 266K BTU Mod P-R266A-EN-C, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, diving board, Southern Ontario (Canada) climate.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    shane4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    69

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    I missed it the first search but came across a thread here in the above ground section "drain cap leaking on sand filter"
    Seems like there is a screen piece that does insert into the drain neck
    16' x 32' IG, vinyl, 80k litre (21k gal), "lazy L" (kidney like at deep, squared off at shallow) shallow 3', deep 8', Hayward sand filter 300 lbs, 20gal/min Mod S-244T, Pentair Superflow VS 1.5 HP Model 342001, Raypak Heater 266K BTU Mod P-R266A-EN-C, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, diving board, Southern Ontario (Canada) climate.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    TFP Guide
    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Howell, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,162

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    I think you only need to be concerned once you remove the drain plug on the filer (with the sand that is). You may want to leave the multi-port on filter next year as it will push some of the water, if not most out of the filter when you close. I always recommend recirculate because the sand creates resistance and the blower/compressor may not have enough volume, etc.

    Chances are that Hayward will have the piece you are looking for. Would you have to take the filter apart to insert the missing piece or is it from the outside?
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Frog Mineralizer System (EMPTY) - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Pool Company tests water (NO LONGER) TF-100 TEST KIT
    Date of Build is 11-2013

  7. Back To Top    #7
    shane4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    69

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    It seems the part is inserted from the outside. However, some Hayward spec sheets seem to indicate the part is for models after 2005. Mine is older. So what did older models use? How did the sand stay in?

    Using the filter setting? Do you mean to disconnect the plumbing and run the pump to push water out of the filter?

    I would be concerned about not enough water getting out and damaging the base of the standpipe where the laterals connect when the deep freeze comes.
    16' x 32' IG, vinyl, 80k litre (21k gal), "lazy L" (kidney like at deep, squared off at shallow) shallow 3', deep 8', Hayward sand filter 300 lbs, 20gal/min Mod S-244T, Pentair Superflow VS 1.5 HP Model 342001, Raypak Heater 266K BTU Mod P-R266A-EN-C, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, diving board, Southern Ontario (Canada) climate.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    TFP Guide
    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Howell, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,162

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    Using the filter setting? Do you mean to disconnect the plumbing and run the pump to push water out of the filter?
    No, when blowing air and closing the returns, you can use "filter" and water should be pushed through the filter. This just speeds up the amount of water left in the sand. You still have to drain the excess water. You will probably have to improvise and use the fabric, like you mentioned before. Once the cap is on, then you have nothing to worry about (while filter is running). The water out of my sand filter took about 2 days to drain. After 2 days, you can put the cap back on or leave the fabric so no sand come out.

    Lastly, I would definitely call Raypak Customer Service. My equipment is from Hayward and each and every time I call, they are extremely helpful. Keep me posted!
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Frog Mineralizer System (EMPTY) - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Pool Company tests water (NO LONGER) TF-100 TEST KIT
    Date of Build is 11-2013

  9. Back To Top    #9
    shane4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    69

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    Sorry for the delay. Been really busy and since the pool is closed there has not been any urgency especially since this issue wont affect me again until I close again at the end of next season (when draining the filter).

    Surprisingly, Hayward was not much help. Technical support did not seem to really know what stops the sand from flowing out. All they could do was to identify part numbers for a drain kit that I already knew about.

    There appears to be 2 kits. One for pre 2005 and one for newer. Yet the tech support was not sure how to identify which filter is pre 2005 and which is not as they all have the same model number (in my case a 24” filter so model No. S244T). Although, newer models may have a prefix before the model number indicating the year. Mine is simply S244T. Anyways, I know mine is pre 2005 as the pool was built in the late 90's and I am sure the filter is original.

    The part for newer models (2005 and up) comes with a new drain cap (which is kind of like a star pattern), a gasket and a plastic insert. The insert is similar to a lateral and threads into the drain neck. It has the small slotted openings to let water pass but not sand. The part kit for the older models is just a gasket and drain cap. The cap is white or black and is round in appearance. The older model cap is also smaller than the newer model cap as the older models have a narrower drain neck. The plastic insert of the newer models will not fit into the drain necks of the older models. The newer models have threads in the drain necks that the insert threads in to. The older models do not have threads on the interior of the drain necks. Regardless of threads, I was hoping I could force the newer model's screen insert into the drain neck but as mentioned, the insert is too big to fit into the older model.

    I have seen images in Hayward manuals that show both kits including the plastic insert. In reality, the older part does not come with the insert. Just the gasket and cap.

    So what stopped the sand from flowing out in the older models???????

    Hayward tech had no idea.

    I do not generally like to deal with pool stores but there is a service/supply/builder that does seem pretty reliable. They are out of my way but I went to see if they had the drain parts (as Hayward wont deal direct with the customer). They had both in stock and that is how I learned of the size difference and what was included in the kits. The sales clerk really had no idea and just kept staring at me like a deer in headlights. A tech came from behind the counter as he overheard my questions. He showed me a parts list catalogue that showed a filter screen part number. He said it is simply a sheet of screen material that covers the drain opening from the inside of the tank. He also showed me the "NS" identifier beside the part description which he explained means non stock or not a part that is supplied.

    Finally, someone was able to confirm what I already assumed. The older models do not have the plastic insert for the drain neck to screen sand from flowing out the drain. The older models used a screen that was installed inside the tank and simply covered the drain opening. The part is known to fall apart over time especially if disturbed such as when replacing sand. Exactly what I did back in the spring. I never noticed that I disturbed such a part and that it got scooped out with the old sand.

    The tech said I could try placing some screen over the drain hole but that also means I have to empty all the sand out. I also need to ensure whatever screen I use is small enough to hold back the sand but also not let sand get trapped and then clog the screen so that water wont come out either.

    I will have to leave the story at that for now. I am going to see if I can figure out a fix from the outside. When I fill the tank next season I will test some theories to see what may work. I am thinking maybe just a piece of densely rolled up cheese cloth and stuff it in the drain neck may do the trick.
    16' x 32' IG, vinyl, 80k litre (21k gal), "lazy L" (kidney like at deep, squared off at shallow) shallow 3', deep 8', Hayward sand filter 300 lbs, 20gal/min Mod S-244T, Pentair Superflow VS 1.5 HP Model 342001, Raypak Heater 266K BTU Mod P-R266A-EN-C, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, diving board, Southern Ontario (Canada) climate.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    TFP Guide
    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Howell, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,162

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    I will have to leave the story at that for now. I am going to see if I can figure out a fix from the outside. When I fill the tank next season I will test some theories to see what may work. I am thinking maybe just a piece of densely rolled up cheese cloth and stuff it in the drain neck may do the trick
    Perfect Idea. I would not go and take the whole filter after again. In the spring, you will not loose sand as the cap is on. Also, regarding Hayward, I feel bad that they were of no help. For me, they figured out my rusting screw heads by the light, and also sent me free of charge a pressure gauge and vacuum head, etc. (Just for inquiring). Chances are you have a lot of new men/women who do not understand older designs. Good Luck with everything!
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Frog Mineralizer System (EMPTY) - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Pool Company tests water (NO LONGER) TF-100 TEST KIT
    Date of Build is 11-2013

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    139

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    i agree with Cat's last post. try your easy way first. I too have the older model and have changed sand several times without ever noticing the screen inside. i guess i am fortunate not to have disturbed it. Really surprising about Hayward's lack of tech support knowledge. Good luck, and Happy Winter!
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, switching to TFP chlorine in 2016

  12. Back To Top    #12

    TFP Guide
    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Howell, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,162

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    Personally, I see no reason to ever change the sand. A deep cleaning would be better. I use skimmer socks and it really helps out. Backwash once a year.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Frog Mineralizer System (EMPTY) - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Pool Company tests water (NO LONGER) TF-100 TEST KIT
    Date of Build is 11-2013

  13. Back To Top    #13
    shane4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    69

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    I agree. I would not do it again. The myth that sand grains "wear down" will lessen filtration...... really??????

    Anyways, I was attempting to do just what you said and just flush the sand out with a hose. When I lifted the head, the standpipe was stuck solid in the head. I could not get my hands in their to try and pull,twist or turn it. As I moved it around the whole stand pipe and laterals lifted up. In order to reset them I had to empty the tank of sand. I thought well, might as well replace the sand with new in that case. In hind sight I should have just reused the original sand. On close inspection it seemed fine, just a more grey colour than the new I put it. I did see a lot of debris in the sand that back washing did not remove. This debris would have easily been removed by the hose in the top of the tank method.

    So I wasted money on new sand. In my opinion. However, I did observed that the level of sand (300 lbs) I put in was much higher than what I took out. I guess the previous owner did have issues with loosing sand either through filtration issues or the drain. And no, I never notice sand in the pool.
    16' x 32' IG, vinyl, 80k litre (21k gal), "lazy L" (kidney like at deep, squared off at shallow) shallow 3', deep 8', Hayward sand filter 300 lbs, 20gal/min Mod S-244T, Pentair Superflow VS 1.5 HP Model 342001, Raypak Heater 266K BTU Mod P-R266A-EN-C, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, diving board, Southern Ontario (Canada) climate.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    139

    Re: Hayward Sand Filter Drain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    Personally, I see no reason to ever change the sand. A deep cleaning would be better. I use skimmer socks and it really helps out. Backwash once a year.
    Agreed. my sand changes were done before finding this site.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, switching to TFP chlorine in 2016

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •