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Thread: CYA and Borate tests...

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    CYA and Borate tests...

    What is the best test for Borates? I know the exact level is not that important but it would be nice to differentiate between the 50 and 80 color comparisons on the Lamotte test strips. My test this morning could be either. For numbers purposes I split it down the middle and use 65.

    The CYA test, K-2006 test kit. Large difference in the reading between "I think I can barely still see the black dot, maybe just a little if I squint" and it being absolutely out of site. Do you keep pouring liquid in until you are totally sure the dot is invisible?

    Can't stand the swirling. It was ok when I didn't test that much but now that I am it sucks. Found the TFTestkits link in here and understand the relationship between that site and TFP. Ordered some replacement reagents, tube, some other things. Prices were just fine and anyone who uses this site, which is an awesome source of info and help, and then orders supplies elsewhere to save $.63 on a bottle of something is a gravy sucking pig. I mean that in the nicest sense of the term.
    2006 IG 18.6K gal marcite saltwater w/integrated 800 gal spa, spillover, 2 Main and 2 Spa Drains, 2 Skimmers
    Goldline Aqua Logic PS-8, Aqua Pod Remote, Hayward GLX-Cell-15-W SWG, Hayward Pool Vac XL, Cartridge filter, single speed pump
    Taylor K-2006, Lamotte Borate Strips

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    See my signature in a web browser for the mannitol borates test.

    Buy a SpeedStir and SampleSizer (SampleSizer only works with genuine Taylor test tubes).

    Perform the CYA test outdoors on the brightest possible daylight. Back to the sun and tube held waist high in the shadow of your body with two fingers pinch-holding the top of the tube. Pour mixture until dot is no longer visible. No squinting. Look away from the tube periodically while filling to defocus your vision a bit. Staring intently at the tube trying to find any hint or speck of the black disc is not the way to do the test.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    Thanks Matt. Already ordered a Speedstir and SampleSizer from TFTestkits. Will use your method for the CYA. Bet I get a different result as I was doing it somewhat the opposite way. Up close, looking at it HARD to see the dot. Bet doing it your way gives me a higher reading.
    2006 IG 18.6K gal marcite saltwater w/integrated 800 gal spa, spillover, 2 Main and 2 Spa Drains, 2 Skimmers
    Goldline Aqua Logic PS-8, Aqua Pod Remote, Hayward GLX-Cell-15-W SWG, Hayward Pool Vac XL, Cartridge filter, single speed pump
    Taylor K-2006, Lamotte Borate Strips

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    CYA and Borate tests...

    Quote Originally Posted by firstbase View Post
    Thanks Matt. Already ordered a Speedstir and SampleSizer from TFTestkits. Will use your method for the CYA. Bet I get a different result as I was doing it somewhat the opposite way. Up close, looking at it HARD to see the dot. Bet doing it your way gives me a higher reading.
    Using the method outlined is basically how Taylor describes it on their website. All I have to do is take the same exact test solution and stand under the awning outside my side door as opposed to out in the direct sun light and my CYA read 20ppm lower. Correct lighting is key.

    You can also purchase a solution from Taylor that is a standard 50ppm CYA solution. You can use that to mix up a test vial and then "calibrate" your eyeball and lighting environment to achieve an exact read at 50ppm. Some people have success with it and find the "perfect spot" in their yard for testing.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Captain 776's Avatar
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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    Seemed like the rain we have had in the last 2 months took my CYA from 70 to Zero, but that is OK for now, we are not having intense sun, our intense sun time is February thru May with April being the hottest month, I am in Thailand
    8M x 4M X 2M no slope IG CONCRETE w/ceramic glass tile
    17,000 Gal EMAUX SWG JAZZI FILTER W/1-3 mm glass media, Jazzi Multi-port valve with
    T-750 filter w/ glass media
    1 main drain sump -3 returns - 1 skimmer
    Kokido digital salinity tester, Kokida drops for CL Hanna digital PH meter, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    Hi Matt,
    I recently got a taylor kit and am wondering about the DOT and the IVORY label that the DOT is on. Is the goal to not see any black, or is it to not see any outline of the ivory label. I went to the Taylor site and viewed their 3 pictures of the stages of testing. It appears that one can still see the outline of the label that the black dot is on. Can you help clarify?

    Also, the 50% CYA solution that you spoke of, came with my kit. It had NO effect on the CYA measurement vial. I contacted the company I bought it from and they stated that they no longer carry that solution. Should I be confident in readings without this calibration tool?

    Regards,
    Bob
    In ground plaster, ~9200 gallons, 1.5hp Whisperflow model WFE-6 pump, Pentaire Clean-N-Clear Plus Model CCP420 Filter- 1 skimmer, 4 returns built in 2003. Just purchased TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    It had NO effect on the CYA measurement vial.
    Did you mix it with an equal amount of R-0013?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    Matt,
    I treated the R-7065 solution as it were water out of my pool (as instructed in the paper insert with the kit). I filled the R-7065 solution to the bottom of the avery label on the mix bottle, then used the re-agent to fill to the top of the ivory label, just as if I were performing a normal pool water test.
    Today I received a new bottle of Re-Agent (R-0013) and repeated the test with the 50ppm pool water agent R-7065. I got basically the same results with filling the reading tube to the top (past 20ppm) and got a bit of cloudy water, but basically no reading. So I have to assume that the 50ppm pool water agent R-7065 is bad.

    Can you answer this: I am wondering about the DOT and the IVORY label that the DOT is on. Is the goal to not see any black, or is it to not see any outline of the ivory label. I went to the Taylor site and viewed their 3 pictures of the stages of testing. It appears that one can still see the outline of the label that the black dot is on. Can you help clarify?

    Thank you,
    Regards,
    Bob
    In ground plaster, ~9200 gallons, 1.5hp Whisperflow model WFE-6 pump, Pentaire Clean-N-Clear Plus Model CCP420 Filter- 1 skimmer, 4 returns built in 2003. Just purchased TF-100 test kit.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    Quote Originally Posted by bpascente View Post
    Matt,
    I treated the R-7065 solution as it were water out of my pool (as instructed in the paper insert with the kit). I filled the R-7065 solution to the bottom of the avery label on the mix bottle, then used the re-agent to fill to the top of the ivory label, just as if I were performing a normal pool water test.
    Today I received a new bottle of Re-Agent (R-0013) and repeated the test with the 50ppm pool water agent R-7065. I got basically the same results with filling the reading tube to the top (past 20ppm) and got a bit of cloudy water, but basically no reading. So I have to assume that the 50ppm pool water agent R-7065 is bad.

    Can you answer this: I am wondering about the DOT and the IVORY label that the DOT is on. Is the goal to not see any black, or is it to not see any outline of the ivory label. I went to the Taylor site and viewed their 3 pictures of the stages of testing. It appears that one can still see the outline of the label that the black dot is on. Can you help clarify?

    Thank you,
    Regards,
    Bob
    Sorry, I missed your question in the previous post.

    It sounds like the R-7065 is somehow no longer good. I can't say for sure but you did that test correctly so I can only assume the 50ppm standard is no longer any good. Not sure how that would happen as CYA does not degrade unless under extreme conditions and with chlorine present. I would ignore the results of that test and either make up your own testing standard (not easy to do), purchase a fresh batch of R-7065 directly from Taylor (you can order stuff from their website but it is not cheap - Taylor - R-7065) or just ignore it altogether.

    As for the dot I'm not 100% sure as I have a Taylor K-2006 with a 2000 Series comparator block. My "hardware" is slightly different than what comes with the TF-100 kit so I'm not sure I can comment appropriately. The label on the bottom of the #9056 tube that comes with my K-2006 is white with a black dot. When I do the test I look for the black dot to disappear and I don't care if I can see the outline of the label or not. In my setup, the CYA tube is actually part of the FC side of the tester block with the CYA ppm markings on the back of the tube. The tube also has a square cross-section as opposed to the other types of tubes that have circular cross sections. Again, the tube I use is different enough that I can't really know for sure what it is you are seeing.

    For comparison, this is the #9056 comparator block - Welcome to Taylor Technologies

    On the back of the FC side of the block (the pink colors used for a DPD-only test), there are graduation marks for the different CYA concentrations and the bottom of each side of the block as a white label on it. The FC side of the block has a white label with the black dot. Unfortunately, the picture from the Taylor website doesn't show everything so I took this picture of the back -

    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: CYA and Borate tests...

    Matt,
    I believe you answered my question regardless of type of measuring tube......
    ..." I look for the black dot to disappear and I don't care if I can see the outline of the label or not....."

    Thanks for your responses and the picture. I appreciate the input.
    Best regards,
    Bob
    In ground plaster, ~9200 gallons, 1.5hp Whisperflow model WFE-6 pump, Pentaire Clean-N-Clear Plus Model CCP420 Filter- 1 skimmer, 4 returns built in 2003. Just purchased TF-100 test kit.

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