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Thread: Ugh....chlorine

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    Ugh....chlorine

    Okay I had a saltwater above ground pool. I loved it!!! I was told saltwater would ruin my concrete around the pool and that it is hard on all the pool parts like the filter and such. What I liked about the saltwater system is that the water was silky smooth and it did not have that strong chlorine smell, and my skin and hair did not dry out. I realize it is a chlorine pool but I hate pools that do not have this system. Pool place pushed the uv System, that is what he has on his pool. I read where less chlorine is used and thought the uv + ozone was the answer. I have already spent $1500 getting the solar eclipse. Now I read here where it useless and I will still have to use the same amount of chlorine? Is that correct? If so I am really bummed! How can they market it as reducing chlorine use up to 70-80% if that is bogus? Why are all the pool places pushing this system? Will the saltwater eat my concrete? Maybe I should go back to the saltwater system! Ugh...I thought after picking the liner it would be smooth sailing.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    I am sorry about you getting scammed, as to answering the questions:

    How can they market it as reducing chlorine use up to 70-80% if that is bogus? Like many marketing statements, this is a half truth, a better way of saying this would be when there is algae growing in a pool this system can help kill it along with chlorine, unfortunately when there is not algae growing they actually increase chlorine use as they burn of your FC. We here at the TFP Forum attempt to keep our pools algae free so there is no benefit to these systems. This claim is also about using 70-80% less chlorine, not about keeping your chlorine at lower levels. In other words the claim is that when you have something growing in your pool and it looks like a swamp, it will take less total chlorine to kill it off, not that constant residual level of chlorine can be lower.

    Why are all the pool places pushing this system? Profit, Big ticket high profit margin items like this makes more money for the pool stores than selling tubs of trichlor one at a time. Plus there is double and triple dipping, they get to sell you the unit, then charge installation on something that is relatively quick and easy to install, then get to sell you replacement UV bulbs every year or two, and don't forget they get to sell you more chlorine products if the pool is clear, and even more than that when it is not.

    We are generally very positive around here about the use of SWG's (salt water chlorine generators) for pool chlorination, all quality pool equipment will tolerate the salt with no problems, and the issue with concrete is relatively low and can be solved by using a concrete sealer every few years. On the spectrum of salt corrosion concrete even unsealed is fairly resistant, soft stone can be effected by it much more severely, however even then the solution is proper sealing.

    Ike
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Oh dear.. that is unfortunate. UV systems do have a place in indoor pools and spas, but you have an entire sun above your pool providing UV rays free of charge.

    My cement hasn't had any problems from salt. Of course occasional rains also help rinse the decking off once in a while. My SWG/chlorine is all the sanitizer I need!
    Maddie- TFP Guide. 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Since the uv system is still in the box I am going to see if I can return it. Can a person seal their concrete on their own? The pool place was very negative about the salt systems, stating metal would corrode. Also, advice on a good salt system for the inground? I had the Hayward Aquatrol for my above ground.

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    You *can* seal concrete, but it really doesn't need it. The salt level in pools is really very low and while pool builders say things like salt will damage <fill in the blank> no one ever seems to see any examples.

    SWGs are The.Bomb.Dot.Com in my book! I'll never have a pool without one.... and my unsealed cement is just fine!
    Maddie- TFP Guide. 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    I had a saltwater system in my above ground and wanted it in my new pool...pool people kept advising against it. I was dead set on getting saltwater system, but was talked out of it. Hope I can send other system back at this point. Has any metal corroded? In my above ground metal was rusting , but not sure what type of metal. Good system to get? I had Hayward Aquatrol in above ground but always seemed to have to replace something. I had three of the computers and three cells when got rid of the pool...only one was working. Kept others just in case.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    See here - Discount Salt Pool - Compare Chlorine Generators and Chlorinators

    CircuPool and Hayward Aquarite are both excellent DIY install models.

    pH has more to do with corrosion than salt. You should have stuck to your guns but the pressure to buy these stupid mineral/ozone/uv systems is off the charts insane lately. It has more to do with PBs and their subs not wanting to do warranty work then anything to do with corrosion.
    Matt
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Yeah I should have! Installer and my father had me concerned about damage to stained, stamped concrete which is not cheap!! I have always said after my first saltwater pool I would NEVER have anything else!!! Anyway, I will likely be out $70 after I send the solar eclipse back (shipping). Waiting to get shipping label to send it back. Salt system is cheaper so I will just eat the shipping. Gives me more money for pool house in the end. At least I figured this out before the install....installer is a good guy in general and he has uv on his pool...works for him...heck he could have an indoor pool for all I know, they have an indoor pool in their store....I just love the salt system. Probably get the Hayward as I am experienced with that system.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Yeah, most of them all claim to have UV. The problem is, if you start off with a relatively clean pool, the UV makes no difference and so acts a lot like a placebo pill - you want to believe it's working and so it "works" in your mind. There is still chlorine in the water and, depending on the other chemical levels, a low FC residual can keep a pool somewhat clean for a good period of time. Then, most of the time, these guys just do their weekly shock routine and that takes care of anything from going bad. In reality, they could turn off the UV lamps and precisely nothing will change.

    Go get yourself a salt cell and, when the builder starts in, just smile and nod.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    I already told him that the uv is going back. I did not buy from him as he was charging about $700 to install. I basically told him that was ridiculous. He of course went into why it would cost so much. I then told him why nothing he said made any sense, as I am familiar with pools and how simple the install is. He then did not respond back. I have since told him I am going back to the original salt cell system which I will do myself since they want to charge me $2,500 for the salt system and install. The Hayward system can be found for less than $900, so I assume the $1600 they pocket. I know the install is simple as it looks almost like the above ground system. Other than that I have been pleased with the install and professionalism.
    21x40 Legacy Mountain Lake, Slate Gray Liner. Sand filter (brand to be determined), Will have Hayward Salt system generator. Everything is still in the works.

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    21x40 Legacy Mountain Lake, Slate Gray Liner. Sand filter (brand to be determined), Will have Hayward Salt system generator. Everything is still in the works.

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Hi Amanda,
    If someone else already answered about the concrete, then apologies, I didn't read every one of the posts.

    Saltwater is not hard on concrete. However if it's stained concrete, then no matter if you use salt or not, you should protect it by sealing it. There are some very good products out there to use, so due diligence in picking the right product for you is advised. Many of the sealers also have non slip additives in them or they can be added, so the sealer wont make the concrete so slippery.
    Divin Dave,
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Amanda,

    Do check on warranty issues. Part of the PBs install cost is his implicit warranty that it will be fixed if something should go wrong. By doing the install yourself, make sure that your PB will not invalidate any other part of his warranty.

    It would not be much at all to ask them to leave you the proper space in the plumbing, with unions attached, so that you can simply swap the cell in.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    At this point, after reading a long discussion for a couple hours on this site about saltwater pools I am afraid to put a salt system in. I thought I would get answers but just ended up confused as heck! So I will wait as I doubt I will swim until spring anyway. I will check warranty issues but at this point I am not going to decide...there seems to be no simple answer. People either love the salt system and say there are no problems or people hate them and report very costly damages.
    21x40 Legacy Mountain Lake, Slate Gray Liner. Sand filter (brand to be determined), Will have Hayward Salt system generator. Everything is still in the works.

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    How can I tell who are business reps on here? That may help me sort through the salt water system debate in here...I hope anyway....
    21x40 Legacy Mountain Lake, Slate Gray Liner. Sand filter (brand to be determined), Will have Hayward Salt system generator. Everything is still in the works.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda B View Post
    How can I tell who are business reps on here? That may help me sort through the salt water system debate in here...I hope anyway....
    If you go to the TFP site on your browser then anyone who has self-reported that they work in the pool industry will have the label "In The Industry" above their avatar.

    Sadly there's no way to know for sure but we typically ban industry types if they don't self-report or if they engage in business in the forum. We have very strict rules associated with the proper use of this forum as it is dedicated to residential pool owners helping one another, we're not here as an advertising platform for pool businesses.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    The In The Industry label is applied regardless of self reporting. Anyone found or appearing to be in any pool related business has that tag added to their profile. As Matt says, we have strict rules regarding selling or advertising on the forum. We strive to ensure that all advice posted here is genuine, accurate and helpful.
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Amanda,

    Take your time with the salt decision. SWG's are dead simple to add after the fact and if you're not ready to pull the trigger, so be it. The PB can simply add a standard puck chlorinator to your plumbing and you can use that for the times when you go on vacation and need to add chlorine automatically. Salt can always come later.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    Amanda, just for reference, which threads have you seen with people reporting costly damages from using an SWG in a typical outdoor residential pool? And do these damages extend to use with anything other than extremely soft natural stones? Earlier this year there was an informal survey of owners who used SWG's and had soft natural stone, particularly Oklahoma Flag stone as this issue has been brought up by pool builders in the DFW area over the last year or so as a reason to not install SWG's as Flag stone is very popular in that part of Texas. Read for yourself what was said Pictures of Salt Water flagstone or coping damage?
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Ugh....chlorine

    The thread I was reading was extremely long and is now in the agree to disagree forum. By the time I was finished reading it I was confused as heck. Though I am starting to believe that two individuals in that forum, that were dead set against salt systems were in the industry. Though they weren't pushing a product, in my opinion one way to get people to buy your product is to just argue the others out there are bad. I most likely will get swg, but I have fall and winter to decide. What I was hoping to get was the good and bad about swg and tips to avoid the bad. My only concern is my pool walls and concrete. I honestly do not mind having to replace hand rails or other parts more often. Just concerned more about the overall structure and I couldn't get a definitive answer. I also read about sacrificial zinc anodes and was hoping to see how to install, but didn't really find that either. I know to connect it to the ground wire...but exactly how?
    21x40 Legacy Mountain Lake, Slate Gray Liner. Sand filter (brand to be determined), Will have Hayward Salt system generator. Everything is still in the works.

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