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Thread: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

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    Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Hi all, I'm new. So please don't be too hard on me. I've owned a pool for all of 3 weeks, and have already encountered several issues. I am not familiar with all the "terminology" so bare with me.

    First issue...before I moved in (two weeks ago), I came to visit my new house to find the water well below the skimmer...figured out (hoped), there was a leak at the bottom of my pump, along with a leaking pipe I my pump system. Pump seal was replaced along with new pipe fixtures - Since I wasn't "moved in" , I didn't have time to fix myself...$185 later...I have enough to pay for...so I am trying to do any future repair myself.

    .fast forward...

    This past weekend I had my pool water tested at Pinch - A - Penny (no, I don't own a kit yet, I just moved in Sunday!)
    They advised that I needed to do the following...a Gallon of Cholrine, a cup of Acid, ...check...wait 24 hours....add 4 pounds of Stabilizer using a sock in the skimmer...run pump 24 hours..check...the pump shut off last night around 5pm after running continuously for 24 hours. Everything looked "ok".

    Now this morning, wake up in horror as overflow spa is drained just above the jet line? HELP!...Wife says..call the pool guy again...I say, the internet has the answers!!

    Can one of you fine internet folks help me get started on this? Did the stabilizer "clog" something? Did running the pump too long cause it to go crazy? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    sounds like either a valve is stuck in wrong position or your check valve is failing

    In my pool I have electrically actuated valves - In pool mode my spa over flows to the pool because the pump pulls from the pool and some of the water goes to the spa which causes the spill over. if I set the valves so the pump pulls from the pool and returns to the spa I get HUGE spillover effect,

    If I were to change the valve so that the pump is pulling from the spa and returning to the pool it would "drain the spa" if the valve were partially turned like that it could result in what you saw.

    But more likely ls that the check valve in the spa line is leaking and the spa water leaked down to the level of the pool

    Maybe the granulated stabilizer got caught in the check valve ... CYA is notorious for taking days to dissolve - which is why its recommended to put it in a sock and put the sock in front of a return till it dissolves

    hope this offers some ideas
    Doug - Purchased 1/2016, 1995 house with 16x31 ft, ~23000 gallon Gunite pool w 11x7 spa, 3 Pentair VS pumps, a boost pump for polaris 3900 and a BaduŽ Jet super-sport swim jet pump, 1.5 hp blower, a CL460 Cartridge filter. TF-100 test kit. Aquapure SWG, iAqualink - Lots to learn. New Aquabright, Jandy LEDs, CMP LED Sheers.

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    I haven't changed any valves since I moved in, and I believe my valves are set up correctly, and similar to yours. I can take pictures and post later...

    If the stabilizer did get caught in the control valve...will it eventually just disintegrate on it's own? Or do I need to clean out the check valve?
    My check valve is the type with the "see through" plastic, in the shape of a "Octagon" (?)

    How do I clean it?

    I was told to put the stabilizer in a sock inside my filter. The stabilizer filled up two socks..so I placed two there. I checked the stabilizer this morning and it's "mostly" disintegrated. You are saying the socks should have been in front of the skimmer instead of inside it?
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Wait for some of the veterans to reply here ...

    When you say you put the stabilizer in the filter - you mean the skimmer ?

    if its really stabilizer holding open the check valve that should resolve itself over a few cycles of the spa running ...
    Doug - Purchased 1/2016, 1995 house with 16x31 ft, ~23000 gallon Gunite pool w 11x7 spa, 3 Pentair VS pumps, a boost pump for polaris 3900 and a BaduŽ Jet super-sport swim jet pump, 1.5 hp blower, a CL460 Cartridge filter. TF-100 test kit. Aquapure SWG, iAqualink - Lots to learn. New Aquabright, Jandy LEDs, CMP LED Sheers.

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    sorry, yes I meant I put the socks directly in the skimmer basket.
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Pinch a penny, don't go back there. All they really want to do is sell you chemicals and provide you with some bad info. Granted you have no testing kit but I'm sure you will get one soon.

    Can you post the numbers they gave you on your water?

    I've not see stabilizer cause an issue with valves but if it did, it should be dissolved by now. Especially if you placed it in a sock which I've never heard of. Being a former pool service guy as well, I would dump the stabilizer into the skimmer with the pump running and be done with it. No socks involved. Most of it would get trapped in the filter and then dissolve without issue. I have seen some dissolve it in a bucket of pool water and they would then poor it in and around the edge of the pool. So several ideas. Just take note, when you dissolve it in a bucket of water it gets very warm.

    As for the spa waters level, sounds like a stuck or broken check valve. It would be on the return side of the plumbing. It stuck open and thus allowed the spa water to feed back into the pool until the two leveled out. Once the pool pump starts back up, the spa would fill back up. There is no harm when this happens but it does alarm some folks.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    I can get the number info for you in a bit...

    So if it is my check valve, how do I fix it?
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Putting stabilizer in a sock is the standard recommendation at TFP. Then, you either hang the sock in front of a return (water coming back into pool) or place the sock in the skimmer (water leaving the pool to be filtered). By doing either method, the stabilizer crystals don't go directly to the filter and remain there until they dissolve. This allows you to backwash/clean the filter without washing out the stabilizer.

    If the OP hasn't moved any valves and the spa was full with pump off - and now it's down to the level of the returns, it's likely a check valve leaking. For the OP, this doesn't mean leaking out onto the ground, it's "leaking" back into the pool.

    Post up a few pics of your pool and your equipment pad - be sure to show all valves and other equipment from a couple different angles. Once we see the equipment we assist you toward a solution.

    Oh, and order one of the recommended test kits, it will save you $$$ and headaches in the long run. I personally use the TF-100 - it's the best bang for the buck. Pool School - Test Kits Compared
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Ok took a bunch of pics from my phone...what's the easiest way to get them on the board?
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    You can upload them to Photobucket, then copy/paste the image code into your post.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    IMG_1226.jpg

    My spa this morning...pump not on...I panicked and threw a garden house in there before turning the pump back on.

    IMG_1227.jpg
    IMG_1228.jpg

    Here is the pool after the pump being on for about 4 hours...spa back up.

    Here are the pics of my pump system...
    IMG_1229.jpgIMG_1230.jpg
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    only 5 photos per post..so here are 5 more.
    IMG_1231.jpgIMG_1233.jpg
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Here are my Levels According to Pinch A Penny (These were taken on Sunday before I poured in a Gallon of Chlorine and a cup of acid followed by the 4 ilb Stabilizer.

    Total Cholr - 0 ppm - Ideal 2 to 4
    Free Chlor - 0ppm -Ideal 2 to 4
    Combined *
    PH - 8.0 Ideal 7.4 to 7.6
    Acid Demand- X
    Base Demand - X
    Total Alkalinity - 85 ppm - Ideal 80-120
    Calcium Hardness - 100 ppm - Ideal 250 to 400
    Stabilizer - 30 ppm - Ideal 60 to 80
    Total Dissolcved solids X
    Salt - X
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    meh..I'm having trouble adding more photos...says I've reached my capacity. Photobucket and Imageshack are blocked here at the office...so that will be it for now.
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Nice pool!

    What is the valve to the right side of the filter? Can you take a close up pic of that valve?

    I think the check valve in the spa return line is allowing water to flow back into the pool. The flapper inside probably isn't seating full when the system isn't running. Here's a link that may help you open it up and inspect the flapper: How To Repair a Pool Spring Flapper Check Valve - INYOPools.com. Be aware that if the water level in the spa is higher than the valve, water will flow out of the valve body when you open it. Also, I'd close the valve to the spa return - it's the one that splits the spa and pool return lines. Just loosen the small round knob in the middle, then rotate the handle so "OFF" points toward the spa return side of the vavle (be sure to return the valve to the previous setting when you're done).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah, there's a limited quota to upload pics directly to the site - hence the suggestion to use Photobucket.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    Putting stabilizer in a sock is the standard recommendation at TFP. Then, you either hang the sock in front of a return (water coming back into pool) or place the sock in the skimmer (water leaving the pool to be filtered). By doing either method, the stabilizer crystals don't go directly to the filter and remain there until they dissolve. This allows you to backwash/clean the filter without washing out the stabilizer.
    Yeah in the field we don't worry about it. We put it in the skimmer and way we go. It doesn't take long for it to dissolve. But everyone has their own way of doing things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would have to say that this is the check/backflow valve. Attachment 54566


    It generally has a flap, this kind at least, inside it and can be easily replaced. You should be able to see it thru the clear plastic cap.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    the valve on the right side of the filter says "water feature"..its a mystery valve to me. I'm not sure what it does.

    So your saying close off the spa return valve before trying to repair the flapper correct?
    Turning off the valve causes the "water fall" to stop.
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Where do I find replacement parts? Just a local pool store, or is there a better place to shop online?
    New pool owner Located in South Florida - 15k gallon screened in Concrete pool, with "flow over" spa. More info to follow...

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Overflow spa water disappeared over night?

    Might be best to take it apart first to see if the innards need replacement. A while back, someone here found a burr on the inside of the black housing that was causing their leak back issue.

    So your saying close off the spa return valve before trying to repair the flapper correct?
    Turning off the valve causes the "water fall" to stop.
    Yes, that will keep the filter and piping on the other side of the Jandy valve from draining into the open check valve. It might also be best to drain the spa down below the return jets before removing the top on the check valve so water doesn't come out.
    The "water fall" is actually called a spillway - the spa "spills" over into the pool. You're gonna learn lots of new vocabulary here.

    As to the mystery valve, right now it is feeding BOTH pipes after the filter equally. See where the "OFF" is pointed? When you feel like playing with it, turn - slowly - clockwise (with pump on) toward the pipe on the very right and then to the pipe toward the bottom to see what it does.

    Let us know if you have any more questions!
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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