Pentair IC60 and Easytouch8-SWG cycling on/off

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bdavis466 said:
I'm considering bypassing the controller and hardwiring the IPH to a relay/48v power (i think I recall that being the voltage), powering the relay via the "F" relay and scheduling it to run for X minutes per day to achieve the daily dose I desire. The controller is the weak link in the whole setup.

A Stenner is another option and would operate in a similar fashion to how I described above.
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Thanks for the pump info. Interesting. I may look into this when my existing pump fails. Maybe build it up front over the winter so it is ready and I can switch over when the intelliph pump fails.

How much of a mod is it? Will it run on the same voltage?


I also thought I read somewhere that there IS a way for the easytouch to schedule chlorination independent of the motor running?
 
Jimrahbe said:
xyz,

When I measure between the black and Red wires in the plug on the left side of the picture, I get about 38 Volts DC. Is this where you were getting 18 volts??? Or were you measuring AC volts?

View attachment 54542

Jim R.
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Hmmm. This is really interesting. Mine looks similar but definitely not the same. Mine has 4 power transistors on the back that are bonded to an aluminum heat sink that then gets bolted to the back of the enclosure.

Where I did my measurements, was hacked, with a couple of probes on the underside of the plug. But I may sacrifice my defunct IC40 cable so I can get a no kidding voltage measurement out of the plug coming out of the easytouch.

My guess is you have something different than an easytouch8; that is why It looks different.

Pentair says it SHOULD BE 24 volts nominal. I think the range is pretty large though.

Where I'm getting the 18 volts is from the black to red on the connector on the BOTTOM of your picture there. IOW the input comm lead [I -think-].

Tonight, I will measure black to red exactly where you measured it, and report back.

Thanks for the info; this is REALLY helpful. Even if it doesn't get me to the root cause, it helps me eliminate [or become more suspicious of] failure modes.

And a picture is worth a thousand words.

I wonder why yours doesn't have the power transistors on the back?

- - - Updated - - -

bdavis466 said:
That's the voltage I get on mine and that's where I would tap into to get the power for the IPH without the controller.
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Hmm. so yours is 38v also? Interesting. I -think- mine is 25vDC. If this turns out to be true, this provides even more evidence that this is NOT a power supply issue.
 
I actually don't recall if it was 48 or 24v. It was a while back when I measured it and I pulled the voltage from the IPH controller when the pump was triggered to run (so I could see what I needed to bypass the controller).
 
I actually don't recall if it was 48 or 24v. It was a while back when I measured it and I pulled the voltage from the IPH controller when the pump was triggered to run (so I could see what I needed to bypass the controller).

It would take a 28v SPST that you would need to splice into a wiring pin that would connect into the Pentair relay sockets. This is exactly the same way I'm running a 5th actuator through the EasyTouch but used a DPDT relay instead.
 
Just looking at my power supply PCB, there really is not much filtering. I would have expected some large filter caps after the AC to DC conversion. It would be interesting to measure the ripple and see what it is. Just for grins, I'd temporarily add a large electrolytic cap across the DC supply to the SWG and see if that improves anything. My thought is that the IC60 pulls more current, causing the ripple to increase and maybe introducing enough noise on the comm line to cause intermittent communication failures.

Just a WAG!!!

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Just looking at my power supply PCB, there really is not much filtering. I would have expected some large filter caps after the AC to DC conversion. It would be interesting to measure the ripple and see what it is. Just for grins, I'd temporarily add a large electrolytic cap across the DC supply to the SWG and see if that improves anything. My thought is that the IC60 pulls more current, causing the ripple to increase and maybe introducing enough noise on the comm line to cause intermittent communication failures.

Just a WAG!!!

Jim R.
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Ha! My previous post didn't take because I used the alternative to this next statement, so here it is again.

Pretty DARN good idea!

I actually ordered a 10000mfd cap a while back when I thought the issue could be power supply sag. Once that was ruled out, I sort of dropped that. But PS junk coupling into the signal? Capital idea!


Also, from e-mailing with the Pentair rep, there -may- and I say -may- be a correlation of resetting with the end of a chlorine dosing cycle.

From what I have learned:

Cycle is a 5 min cycle. 4:45 [285 seconds] of that is the time when the plates are actually energized, creating chlorine, when set to 100%. This "sort of" correlates to my experiments in that short (10%) doses seem to reset in about 30 seconds [or is it 28.5?]. And longer doses [16%], if memory serves me, seem to take longer to reset, say 40 seconds [or is it 44.45?].

So it may be that once you get past the 50 something mark, by the time the failure mode decides to reset, it is back in dosing mode. And if this means it is pulling more current, that may help smooth out a noisy power line.

Well, now I'm going to go back to my cap order and see where that thing is.
 
Jimrahbe said:
xyz,

Just don't put it in backwards... ;)

Jim R.
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;-)

OK, so no luck with the third unit. Same symptoms.

But a little bit of new info, and the guess about PS interference -might- have some validity.


I left the DMM on the power supply line and the restart 100% correlates to a step in voltage. Here is what happens:


1) turn on power, voltage between red and black wires is nominally 42 volts.
2) 2 minutes to go through the startup sequence
3) cell light turns on
4) voltage immediately drops to 36 volts
5) when cell light goes off, voltage jumps back up to 42, and the system restarts.




Every single restart coincides with this jump in voltage, and coincides with the end of a “cell” cycle.

Adding 10,000 mfd had zero benefit. Except that the power LED tool a long time to extinguish ;-)

So I guess I could add a regulated PS and that would clearly, or at least probably fix it. Don't know how much current it uses yet though.


 

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I assume everything is still under warranty, correct? If you think you'be possibly found the problem, I would escalate to pool builder/Pentair and have them fix the problem at this point. You don't want to troubleshoot and possibly void your warranty.
 
Ocgasman said:
I assume everything is still under warranty, correct? If you think you'be possibly found the problem, I would escalate to pool builder/Pentair and have them fix the problem at this point. You don't want to troubleshoot and possibly void your warranty.
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One person is saying it is definitely covered, and if the other person says no she will honor it. She says, if a user replaceable unit is changed and this doesn't work, they will make good on it.

They also said 42v, dropping to 36 volts means something on the transformer or power supply is not right, despite that the system operates somewhat correctly anyway.

I think we we all have the same issue. If you can, put a DMM across the black and red wire. Do you see 26-27 v as the techs are saying you should? Or are you seeing what I'm seeing?




So while I'm waiting for them to work it out, I got a cheap switcher, and will bypass their PS, put clean 24vDC on it, and see what's up. I'm predicting that it will work great after that.
 
xyz,

I measured my DC power going to the IC40 and it reads 42.7 VDC when the cell is off and 36.5 VDC with the cell on. Based upon that, the 26-27 VDC that the tech says you should see, just does not sound correct to me.

Jim R.
 
Thank you, thank you. Very helpful.

AND, Pentair found the issue and has a new firmware revision that fixes it. They have put a new one in the mail for me.'

See below. I will report back when I receive it.



Here is the communication from Pentair:

Jon,

Okay sir I have gotten to the bottom of this and it is in fact a firmware issue with the cells you have. The first 3.0 cells experience those issues so they immediately fixed these glitches on the 3.11 ver cells. Soooo what I am going to do is put a new cell into the mail to send directly to you. Please email me a copy of your receipt for the purchase of this cell so the computer will allow me to send parts. Also I am going to get you an RMA email so that we can get the latest cell back from you and sent to engineering so it can be flashed. You can send the Second cell you still have back to the dealer you got it from.

Regards,

Julian Janzen
Technical Support Representative

Pentair Water Quality Systems
175 South Wright St,
Delavan, Wisconsin 53115

Office 1-800-831-7133
Fax 1-262-292-4476
Pentair Water Pool and Spa
poolFyi | twitter | facebook | youtube | podbean
 
Ocgasman said:
Well, I have 3.11 version cell and had the restart issue. I hope the new cell fixes your problem, but I don't think it's the Intellichlor that needs addressing. My money is still on the transformer or power supply. Keep us updated.
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Bummer. I'm still going to let them give it a try. And if there are other fixes, maybe I'll want them.


Mm given you info, AND, that Jims measurements that track with mine very well, I'm going to continue with my switcher mod. Parts should be here this afternoon. And if that works, I'll let y'all know what the parts look like.

I'm more than 50% confident that this mod will put this to bed.
 

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