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Thread: One too many pipes?

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    One too many pipes?

    Hi,

    Looking to close my pool myself this year and before I blow out lines I'd like to figure out what the 4th pipe going into the ground is for. I had a guy close it last year and recall him saying that we had an unusual system. Attached are some photos for orientation. I have 2 pipes (one from skimmer, one from drain) entering a valve before the pump/multiport/filter. I have another 2 pipes (one of which is the return) also connecting into the pump/multiport/filter, however the associated valve is in the off position. I can open the valve to the return for the purposes of blowing out the lines. Does anyone have any idea what the extra pipe could be for? We don't have a vacuum system connected to pump.
    Thanks,
    Greg

    PoolPipesView2.jpg

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Welcome to the forum!


    I am thinking the valve and pipe with question marks is for a cleaner and it can be used for either a pressure or suction side cleaner. Do you have a port on the side of the pool for a cleaner?

    BTW, what is the brand of the 3-way valves?
    Mark
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Thanks! There is not additional port anywhere around the pool (we use an old Hayward Aquavac for vacuuming). The valves are Hayward Dial-a-flo.


    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Welcome to the forum!


    I am thinking the valve and pipe with question marks is for a cleaner and it can be used for either a pressure or suction side cleaner. Do you have a port on the side of the pool for a cleaner?

    BTW, what is the brand of the 3-way valves?

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    Re: One too many pipes?

    How many returns/eyeballs do you have into the pool? Perhaps one was used as a suction port at one time.
    Mark
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    3 -- one in the shallow end, another one in the shallow end on the side of the entry steps, and one in the deeper end of the pool. The pool is about 32x16, 6+ feet in the deep end and 2-3 feet in the shallow end. They all have flow out of them and the extra valve is closed.




    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    How many returns/eyeballs do you have into the pool? Perhaps one was used as a suction port at one time.

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    Re: One too many pipes?

    If you rotate that valve so the handle is towards the filter (90 degrees CW), does one of the returns turn into suction?
    Mark
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Nope. Interestingly in the 1/2 or 2 position there is no noticeable difference in anything (my guess is that some water is just bypassing the filter. If I rotate to the 1 position (mystery pipe) the pressure in the filter shoots up (and the main suction lines are still open).

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    If you rotate that valve so the handle is towards the filter (90 degrees CW), does one of the returns turn into suction?

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    Re: One too many pipes?

    In position 1, you are turning off that ?? pipe and return so the pressure will go up because now you have only one return pipe. This tells me that pipe dumps into the pool somewhere, you just need to find out where.

    In the off position, the suction pipe is shut off. In position 2, the return is connected to the suction so you should have seen some filter pressure drop.
    Mark
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    I don't know about others, but I am really baffled by your plumbing. All the lines you identify in your first picture appear to be on the suction side of the pump. The drain and skimmer make perfect sense, but I'm confused as to why there would be a line connecting the pool filter to the suction side of the pump. Normal sequence is skimmer to pump to filter then back to pool.
    chiefwej
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    The returns are always on from the skimmer/main drain (left side of labelled photo). So when I fiddle with the 2nd valve (right side of labelled photo) I am adding a third and/or fourth intake to the suction. When I turn the 2nd valve to 1, that position is "open" and the pressure goes up, but I honestly don't think that pipe does anything. When I open the 2 position on the extra valve, there are no changes to anything, although now I think the suction is communicating with the return to the pool.



    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    In position 1, you are turning off that ?? pipe and return so the pressure will go up because now you have only one return pipe. This tells me that pipe dumps into the pool somewhere, you just need to find out where.

    In the off position, the suction pipe is shut off. In position 2, the return is connected to the suction so you should have seen some filter pressure drop.

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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Me too. Keep in mind that on the right side of the labelled photo the valve is normally in the "off" position. The way it is set up I think it could help with blowing out the returns from the pad, but still seems like a bad/illogical way to set it up. If this is really the case, then my best guess is the 4th pipe going into the ground is only for support.




    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
    I don't know about others, but I am really baffled by your plumbing. All the lines you identify in your first picture appear to be on the suction side of the pump. The drain and skimmer make perfect sense, but I'm confused as to why there would be a line connecting the pool filter to the suction side of the pump. Normal sequence is skimmer to pump to filter then back to pool.

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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Quote Originally Posted by greginnj View Post
    The returns are always on from the skimmer/main drain (left side of labelled photo).
    Ok, maybe we have a terminology problem here.

    Suction ports: Skimmer, MD, water going from pool to pump

    Returns: Water going from pump back to pool. These are usually eyeballs but can also be just an opening into the pool.

    I still think that pipe dumps back to the pool. It might be tied in with another return or even one of the suction ports.

    BTW, for that valve, the blocked port is in the direction of the valve handle.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    If you turn the mystery valve 1/4 turn clockwise from the position shown in your photo, then one of your eyeball jets (returns) should change into a suction line and start pulling water back to the pump. This would be used for a suction side cleaner.
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Here is another photo--hopefully this helps. You can see the valves better and I labelled it with the flow of water. The right side valve is off, so I think this means no flow anywhere through it. The return (one pipe) is on the right and I think this feed the 3 eyeballs in the pool.PoolWaterFlowResize.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Ok, maybe we have a terminology problem here.

    Suction ports: Skimmer, MD, water going from pool to pump

    Returns: Water going from pump back to pool. These are usually eyeballs but can also be just an opening into the pool.

    I still think that pipe dumps back to the pool. It might be tied in with another return or even one of the suction ports.

    BTW, for that valve, the blocked port is in the direction of the valve handle.
    - - - Updated - - -

    I have tried that and it doesn't create suction. If it's possible for a return jet that is ejecting water to become a suction line, shouldn't there be another valve somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major_in_MS View Post
    If you turn the mystery valve 1/4 turn clockwise from the position shown in your photo, then one of your eyeball jets (returns) should change into a suction line and start pulling water back to the pump. This would be used for a suction side cleaner.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    The flow is incorrect for the valve on the right. In that position, the top and bottom pipes are connected. Only the suction pipe is blocked. With those types of valves, you can only block one of the three pipes or no pipes.


    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: One too many pipes?

    When I open the port to the mystery pipe, if it's a suction line why would the pressure in the filter go up a lot?


    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    The flow is incorrect for the valve on the right. In that position, the top and bottom pipes are connected. Only the suction pipe is blocked. With those types of valves, you can only block one of the three pipes or no pipes.



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    Re: One too many pipes?

    You said before that turning the valve to position one, which shuts off the return pipe and connects the mystery pipe to the suction side of the pump, increases pressure. What this does is decrease the head loss in the suction side (more suction pipes) and increases head loss in the return side (less return pipes) so pressure goes up because it is a reflection of the head loss on the return side.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: One too many pipes?

    Do you have a NJ sylvan pool?? If so its "main drain/return"


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