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Thread: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

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    Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    My pool was built in the 60's. I have owned it for about 5 years and this year have become more involved with the pool (learning how to operate and maintain it instead of just relying on hired help). It seems the seal between the deck the and the coping is long done and was never replaced. The pool cleaning guys don't (on my second vendor) don't even tell me I need to fix this which is disappointing. I can tell the deck is no longer level with the pool with one end sinking and parting and the other end sinking a bit. I think I will replaster the pool, replace the coping, re-tile and also re-deck kind of spruce it all up in about a year maybe two. In the interim, I want to reseal things for fear water seeping in is causing cracks in my deck. Here are some pics. Tell me what you think and recommended courses of action, if any. Thanks in advance. BTW I want this to be a do it myself project. Tell me your thoughts on that as I am new to all this. I am very interested in the science and the physics of why something is done and within that context what is the best materials and procedure to take. I tend to discount the work of handymen but respect it if they have an engineering aspect behind it.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Here are some more photos:
    The people who run this board should make it much more intuitive and easier to upload additional photos. I spend 15 minutes and still cant figure it out. Seems you have a limitation on total photos but one cannot remove old photos from other threads. So what good is it if we cant share photos?

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    The basic free membership only has enough room for a few photos (256KB), however if you become a supporter even at the lowest $30 bronze level you get 10MB of storage (40 times the amount of the basic free membership), as well as other perks like $10 off a purchase of the TF-100 from TF-Test Kits and $10 off any $100 purchase from INYOPools.

    Ike

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    p.p.s if you must you can remove old photos by going to attachments , First click on settings, the go to attachments in the lower left, then use the check box to select the ones you wish to delete, then click delete selected in the lower right. However keep in mind that if you do the threads may no longer make sense to people sharing the same issue that may read them in the future
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    I didnt know this was a FOR PROFIT website. The business/marketing tool is run by INYO Pools?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Lol. If only the forum made a profit. Inyopools only offers a discount to members in exchange for hoping to get new customers. All donations to the forum go 100% to try to cover the costs of running the forum (server fees, software, etc) instead of plastering ads all over it. No one is getting rich on this forum.

    With the traffic we get, it would be pretty easy to make a profit by allowing ads all over it, but that would dilute our message.

    You can always host your photos elsewhere and post the links in IMG tags.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    OK, thanks for the clarification

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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Just to clarify things here, the owner of INYO Pools has been a member here for a long time, several months ago when donations were not covering operating expenses there was a push get more supporters, at that time as a way to help support the TFP Forum INYO Pools offered the $10 off deal to supporters here. At the time concerns were raised about this looking like a commercial endorsement, however it was decided that this offer may benefit TFP supporters and there were no endorsement strings attached, not big sponsored by INYO pools at the top of each page,etc then accepting their offer of giving a $10 off promo to all supporting members was a good thing all around.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    Just to clarify things here, the owner of INYO Pools has been a member here for a long time, several months ago when donations were not covering operating expenses there was a push get more supporters, at that time as a way to help support the TFP Forum INYO Pools offered the $10 off deal to supporters here. At the time concerns were raised about this looking like a commercial endorsement, however it was decided that this offer may benefit TFP supporters and there were no endorsement strings attached, not big sponsored by INYO pools at the top of each page,etc then accepting their offer of giving a $10 off promo to all supporting members was a good thing all around.
    I for one appreciate this forum, run by INYO or any other retailer, as I could care less. I donated because I have received information far more valuable than the donation amounts, which are extremely reasonable. And certainly less than calling someone out to help. I did order some things from INYO, which I am happy to do, if it continues to help this forum exist. Plus the prices, even without a discount, are reasonable.

    My 2 cents.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    So to answer your actual question....

    What you need to do is install a new mastic joint. What will be required is the following -

    1. Tooling out the existing gap and removing all debris and weed growth. You want to clean out the gap and have a depth of about an inch or so. What ever is reasonable without damaging the coping or your deck. I would also apply a weed killer (RoundUp) and let it soak in a dry up for a day to ensure that you kill anything that might be germinating in there.

    2. Next, you need to add some backer rod material (basically foam rod) to create a level surface with some give to it so that the concrete and coping can shift around as needed with temperature and soil moisture. Not exactly what you need but see stuff like this - MD Building Products 1/2 in. x 20 ft. Caulk Backer Rod-71480 - The Home Depot . You essentially need to fit the width of the gap between the deck and the coping and create a uniform depth for the mastic to be poured into.

    3. Finally, you use a self-leveling mastic compound to fill the gap from the backer rod up to the level of the deck and coping. SikaFlex makes an entire line of products - Sikaflex 29 fl. oz. Grey Self-Leveling Sealant-106711 - The Home Depot After you have created the joint, you can add a little sand to the top of it if that's the texture you want.

    And, as an FYI, if you have never done mastic joints before then I recommend you practice on something and you practice A LOT. It may seem like - "Wow, I've caulked my bathtub before, this should be easy too..." but IT IS NOT. People often hire a handyman to do a mastic job because it can be a royal, messy PITA to do yourself. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it yourself, just be warned that it is not trivial and takes some practice.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolNovce View Post
    I didnt know this was a FOR PROFIT website. The business/marketing tool is run by INYO Pools?
    Also fyi, none of us is paid for what we do here. We do this because we love our pools and we love our pools because of TFP. I for one am solely here to pay it forward for the many years that I have had a great, Trouble Free pool.

    And TFP is officially a NON PROFIT organization. TFP has 501(C)(3) status with the IRS making Trouble Free Pool a charitable organization dedicated to teaching its members. All donations to TFP are tax deductible.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    As an additional comment on the baker rod and sikaflex. This is what I used but be aware that the sikaflex requires a very tight seal between the backer rod and its contact points or else it will drain down below level (ask me how I know ��).
    My recommendation is to put a small amount of the sealant into the joint and let it dry. Now you will have a leak free joint so,when you go back and fill it fully, it wont drain down. I also added sand to the top of mine since i have brown travertine coping and sandstone colored concrete. Looks very nice now
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Pool deck O seal ? - DoItYourself.com Community Forums
    Above is a link to photos if anyone wants to chime on TFP. Thanks. I cant get the photos to show on TFP and I'm not inclined to pay. I hope people understand the photos are easily viewed by clicking the link.

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    Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolNovce View Post
    Pool deck O seal ? - DoItYourself.com Community Forums
    Above is a link to photos if anyone wants to chime on TFP. Thanks. I cant get the photos to show on TFP and I'm not inclined to pay. I hope people understand the photos are easily viewed by clicking the link.
    If you use an image hosting service such as Photobucket (free accounts), then you can upload photos there and then simply cut & paste the IMG code that is generated for every uploaded photo into a TFP post. Then the TFP servers will just go out and grab the image. The only downside is if you delete the image from Photobucket then the link in the TFP post goes bad.

    Your pictures show significant leveling differences between your deck and coping. The expansion joints can be fixed as outlined above in my previous post but the only long term fix is a complete deck and pool renovation where the old decking is ripped out and the ground is releveled.

    No matter what you do for the expansion joints, it's only a temporary band-aid solution and will need to be reworked regularly.
    Matt
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Would you bother if the rip out and redo is to take place in about 2 years from now? I am just worried about rain. Not worried about the appearance of the deck but worried about water seeping in and damaging the shell of the pool. Is this something to worry about?

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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolNovce View Post
    Would you bother if the rip out and redo is to take place in about 2 years from now? I am just worried about rain. Not worried about the appearance of the deck but worried about water seeping in and damaging the shell of the pool. Is this something to worry about?
    I would do it for aesthetic reasons and to keep weeds from popping up. Your pool shell is fine and would not really be impacted by that kind of seepage. Pool shells are designed to handles tens of thousands of pounds of water, rain seepage behind the shell is meaningless.

    Water seeping under the deck and underneath the coping is really the problem as that is what is causing your heaving deck and can potentially cause the coping to break loose from the bond beam. So fixing the mastic joints is more important in that sense.
    Matt
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    I want to resurrectthis thread. So for a year I didn't have time to work on it. Today, I used aShop Vac and blew all the debris (small dead leaves mostly) out of the gap.Took a MagLite to look inside the gap and saw it looked very dry and didn'tappear deep. So I thought OK I will out some sand in the gap and then sometubing and some kind of seal like Deck O. This would be an interim fix prior toa full replacement of the deck at a later date. To my surprise I ended upputting down 50 lbs of play sand into just one area. The sand kept sinkingdown. I ran out but am sure that one area could suck in a lot more?

    What do you folks suggest at this point? More sand? Leaveit?

    BTW I don't really care about the cosmetics of the deck, howit looks and even the gap. My reason to fill the gap was I was concerned abouterosion from rain water and possibly damaging the pool. But the section of thedeck with the biggest gap is actually slanted so that rain will run away fromthe gap unless it hits the area directly.

    I read somewhere else that when pools are built soil is notcompacted so as not to crush any pipes (return lines) and that all concretedecks will crack within 10 years. Is this correct?

    What should I do next????
    Here are some pics taken today. Based on comparison to lastyears photos it seems the gap didnt grow much at all. Is this purely due tosoil erosion or settling?

    Photo 1 you can seethe length of the pool. This is the side with the gap. https://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...k-o-seal-1.jpg
    Photo 2 50 lbs ofsand funneled into this area. I ran out of sand so don't know who much it cantake in. https://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...k-o-seal-2.jpg

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    All concrete cracks, period, no matter what. The goal is to try to control where it cracks with control joints.

    It is fine to add sand that moves down below the gap to fill any potential voids under the deck. But, don't fill in the area between the deck and the pool coping. That space needs to be open to allow expansion, contraction and movement of the deck independently of the pool. Add some foam backer to the gap and a little sand on top to make the depth for the polyurethane caulk about 3/4" deep. Then use a self levelling polyurethane caulk, my PB prefers Sikaflex over deck-o-seal. Use painters tape on each side of the gap to help with clean up, it is messy stuff. The only goal of the caulk is to keep water out of the joint and to allow movement without filling the gap.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    thanks pooldv. I checked out the Sikaflex on Home Depot's site. Copied one of the reviews here: "This product works well in applications such as between concrete slabs in walk ways where old expansion joints have deteriorated. However it does NOT do well in areas subject to pool chemicals such as chlorine more than 5ppm according to a Sika Senior Technical Service Specialist. In my case, the casting shock granules (54% trichloro-s-trazientrione) along the edge of the pool probably caused the softening of the cured sealant material when some of the small granules became wet. The softened sealant never re-cured and sticks to bare feet."

    If the above an isolated incident? Maybe got wet before cured?

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    I've never heard anything like that about Sikaflex.
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    Re: Need to put in a seal. Deck O Seal?

    My Sikaflex installation is 2 years plus a few weeks old at this point. The first side/section I did is holding up just fine, however the other 2 sides of the pool are cracking a bit and peeling away from the coping - I think there might be some slight settling of our concrete decking as the pool coping seems to be 1/8" higher than the concrete deck along the area where the problem is appearing - at least I am using that as the excuse for why it is separating a little...

    I did the application of the Sikaflex over a long day - the first part of the day was the first section, and I spent a lot more time and care doing it - that section is holding up much better and has only a few tiny areas where a crack is appearing along the coping. The last 2 sections/sides I did was it was much hotter and I remember I rushed through it a bit quicker. I suppose I didn't get it as clean as well. I noticed some weird shrinking and ripples where the 2nd section met the first and that bothered me at the time.

    I am not very happy that it is already jacked up - but at this point I figure I will wait until spring and do a nice fresh coat once the winter rains are done. I have the big caulk gun still and the concrete masking tape - I just need a few more tubes of the Sikaflex.

    However, if the higher chlorine is contributing to my problem I might look into the 2 part deck-o-seal. The first real problems occurred where I pull the robot out of the pool and let it sit, so it gets a fair amount of water pooling in that area, at least compared to normal splash out.
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