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Thread: PH trouble

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    JanHan's Avatar
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    PH trouble

    Started recently with TFPC, its been so helpful thank you. But running into issue with my PH, finally got it down to 7.2 (from 8.2+) after dumping 1.5 gallons of of 31.45% muriatic acid at 7Am. Tested around 1pm and got a 7.2 reading, just retested and its now at or above 8 again. I guess my questions are: 1. is it safe to constantly dump these large quantities of acid in (pouring slowly near return and then leaving pump and waterfalls on all day) 2. is there another way to lower? 3. what is the cause?
    The previous owner's pool boy said he was never able to keep it low and was 'satisfied with a 7.8 for this pool". Starting to worry about how much this is going to cost. Thanks for any suggestions.

    PH at least 8.2
    FC 2.5
    CC 1.5
    TC 4
    CYA 40
    TA 190
    CH 750
    TF-100 kit, 22k gallon IG, Gunite, Jandy CV580D cartridge filter, Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair Automation system w/Easy Touch remote, Pentair LA01N Pump w/ Polaris, attached hot tub w/Pentair MasterTemp 400 heater, Silencer Air Blower 2.0 hp

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: PH trouble

    First question, JanHan is.... what are you using to test with? Which kit do you have?

    Your pH is going up because you're running waterfalls all day and your TA is 190. As you continue to drop the pH with MA your TA should also lower over time. When your TA is that high it pulls the pH up. Keep at it by dropping the pH to 7.2 and when it rises again do it again. Monitor that TA.

    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    Your FC is too low for your CYA also. How's the water look? How are you sanitizing this pool?? FC/CYA Chart

    Yippee
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: PH trouble

    Jan,

    Well, your TA is pretty high and that can cause the pH to increase. Also keep in mind that running any water feature, such as the waterfall or Spa to Pool spillover will also increase you pH..

    Lowering pH and TA is not a one time action.

    Here is what works for me.. Use pool math and add the necessary Muriatic Acid (MA) to lower pH to 7.0. After about half an hour, measure the pH to ensure it is close to 7.0 and then measure TA and record the results. Turn on all the aeration you have.. In about 3 to 4 hours, measure pH and TA again. When the pH increases to between 7.3 or 7.4 you do it all over again and again and again, until you have lowered your TA to 60 or 70. Once your TA gets to between 60 and 70 you quit adding MA and just keep aerating until the pH increase to 7.4 or so. Then you are done, at least for a while. This will often take a couple of days depending on the amount of aeration.

    Each pool is different. Just let the pH drift up on its own and see if it stops, or at least slows done. In my case it will stay at 7.8 for a pretty long time between MA doses. Don't try to hit some magic number, anywhere between 7.2 and 7.8 is ok.


    Edit.. is your CC really 1.5? I suggest you re-run that test.


    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: PH trouble

    Ooops, I meant to link this for you to read: Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    JanHan's Avatar
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    Re: PH trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Jan,

    Well, your TA is pretty high and that can cause the pH to increase. Also keep in mind that running any water feature, such as the waterfall or Spa to Pool spillover will also increase you pH..

    Lowering pH and TA is not a one time action.

    Here is what works for me.. Use pool math and add the necessary Muriatic Acid (MA) to lower pH to 7.0. After about half an hour, measure the pH to ensure it is close to 7.0 and then measure TA and record the results. Turn on all the aeration you have.. In about 3 to 4 hours, measure pH and TA again. When the pH increases to between 7.3 or 7.4 you do it all over again and again and again, until you have lowered your TA to 60 or 70. Once your TA gets to between 60 and 70 you quit adding MA and just keep aerating until the pH increase to 7.4 or so. Then you are done, at least for a while. This will often take a couple of days depending on the amount of aeration.

    Each pool is different. Just let the pH drift up on its own and see if it stops, or at least slows done. In my case it will stay at 7.8 for a pretty long time between MA doses. Don't try to hit some magic number, anywhere between 7.2 and 7.8 is ok.


    Edit.. is your CC really 1.5? I suggest you re-run that test.


    Jim R.
    Thank you! I'm going to try this method, another problem I'm running into is the calculator is showing less amounts of M.A. than what finally brought down the level today. But that could very well be because I ran the waterfalls and waited so long to retest. (I was also a bit worried that amount of acid would be too harsh to put my hands in before a few hrs) That's why I sort of went YOLO this AM and just dumped in a huge amount and hoped for the best. I'm also going to try and get a better estimate for my pool gallon amount. I'm going on what the previous pool guy told me and I'm thinking he had absolutely no clue about anything at this point.


    TF-100 kit, 22k gallon IG, Gunite, Jandy CV580D cartridge filter, Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair Automation system w/Easy Touch remote, Pentair LA01N Pump w/ Polaris, attached hot tub w/Pentair MasterTemp 400 heater, Silencer Air Blower 2.0 hp

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    JanHan's Avatar
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    Re: PH trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    First question, JanHan is.... what are you using to test with? Which kit do you have?

    Your pH is going up because you're running waterfalls all day and your TA is 190. As you continue to drop the pH with MA your TA should also lower over time. When your TA is that high it pulls the pH up. Keep at it by dropping the pH to 7.2 and when it rises again do it again. Monitor that TA.

    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    Your FC is too low for your CYA also. How's the water look? How are you sanitizing this pool?? FC/CYA Chart

    Yippee
    Hi! Thanks I think you helped with the waterfall info, stupid me thought running them that long would help mix up the chemicals quicker. I'm using the Tf-100 Kit. Bleach to chlorinate. We moved in recently, and I've been trying to get the levels right for about0 8 days now. My original readings were really bad, no chlorine whatsoever and a CYA level of 100 combined with really hard well water. I drained over 50% of the pool, so today's levels were a huge improvement. Oddly enough the water is crystal clear, but I've been trying to balance lowering the PH and getting the chlorine levels right. I added more bleach tonight so I could retest in the AM to see if I'm losing any at night. Here are my original results. My thought process was to get the PH to stabilize in case that was messing up my chlorine situation since my CYA has improved. Here are my original results
    FC= 0
    CC=0
    PH=8.2
    TA=120
    CH=1575
    CYA=100


    TF-100 kit, 22k gallon IG, Gunite, Jandy CV580D cartridge filter, Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair Automation system w/Easy Touch remote, Pentair LA01N Pump w/ Polaris, attached hot tub w/Pentair MasterTemp 400 heater, Silencer Air Blower 2.0 hp

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    JanHan's Avatar
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    Re: PH trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Ooops, I meant to link this for you to read: Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
    "It is actually the acid which lowers TA. Adding acid lowers both the PH and the TA. Then aeration raises the PH without changing TA. Do not use chemicals to raise your pH during this procedure (unless your pH accidentally goes way too low); that will just raise your TA back up, which is exactly what you are trying to avoid."
    I wish I had paid more attention to this paragraph when I started out, hahaha. Thanks!


    TF-100 kit, 22k gallon IG, Gunite, Jandy CV580D cartridge filter, Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair Automation system w/Easy Touch remote, Pentair LA01N Pump w/ Polaris, attached hot tub w/Pentair MasterTemp 400 heater, Silencer Air Blower 2.0 hp

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