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Thread: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

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    Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    I have been fighting this combined chlorine all summer. I have only dropped down to a 7ppm two times this year by accident because I tried to have a life besides taking care of my pool. I have been slamming between a 16ppm and currently 19ppm. I check my pool 3 to 4 times a day 7 days a week and add liquid shock each time. I can not raise the cya. Every time I check it is around 28 cya. This is what I have added this year in Stabilizer:

    7/05/16 - cya 35
    7/12/16 - added (2) 3" tablets
    7/19/16 - added (3) 3" tablets Tested and was clear 20?
    7/21/16 - added 34 oz cya granuals to skimmer in sock and massaged same day until disolved
    7/27/16 - pool store said reading 35 ( I was getting another opinion)
    7/28/16 - added (2) 3" tablets
    8/05/16 - added (2) 3" tablets Test was clear, 20?
    8/09/16 - added (4) 3" tablets
    8/22/16 - added (3) 3" tablets Test was slightly cloudy, 28?
    8/28/16 - added (3) 3" tablets
    9/12/16 - added 12 oz cya granuals Tested before addition and only slightly cloudy and looked like 30cya
    I need to go out of town for 2 days and thought this would help with keeping chlorine in water during day and I've been shocking at 19ppm anyway.

    I have had the pump running 24/7, remove leaves when I see them, pool looks clear, see no algae,haven't smelled chloramines until recently. My combined chlorine went from 1.5 to 4 since June. Mostly used tablets because of vacation and someone else taking care of pool and having them on hand. My house sitter, since she has limited knowledge of pools, added 64 oz of 10% liquid shock in am, 64 oz liquid shock at 3:00 and 128 oz at night. We only left for 2 - 5 days at a time during summer on two occasions. We probably used the pool 20 times this summer. I have spent $70 a week on shock.

    My husband treats our lawn with a fertilizer in the late spring. It is a liquid fertilizer and sprays on behind the mower. Maybe that is in the pool. When he mows, pieces of grass get in the pool. I did let the pool chlorine level drop recently just to check ph. I did that .5
    on
    09/07/16.
    FC = 10
    PH = 7.3
    TA = 60
    CYA = 28
    CC = 4

    The only suspicious thing in pool are my pool wrinkles. When I try to brush or even use a sock on my foot to clean them, they appear like dark lines still. Nothing budges. I'm nearing pool closing and feel like I have no options but to shock, let drop, add 60% polyquat, shock again, drain a couple feet and cover and deal with this next year.

    Any thoughts? I've been using the Taylor K2006 kit. I feel terribly defeated.

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by R&S; 09-13-2016 at 10:38 AM. Reason: typed dates wrong on cya
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    I'm sure an expert will be along shortly offer more help, but it is clear to me your CYA test isn't correct or something else is going on you have not mentioned.
    I see 19 3" tablets, that alone would boost your CYA by 40, plus you've added granules for another 26. If it really started at 35 you should be at 100 by now.

    How are you testing? The K2006 doesn't have 28 or 35 marks for CYA, only 30, 40, 50, etc.
    Double check your doing all the steps and read all of the notes here:
    Pool school: CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

    As far as something else going on, has there been unusual amounts of rain overflowing the pool or causing large amounts of pool water to need to be dumped (as in several feet of water)? Or have you had to add water constantly? The only way to get rid of that much CYA would be to replace water, so if the testing is correct a lot of water must be getting replaced somehow.
    I've personally never seen CC above 0.5 so not sure what might cause that. I've heard non-chlorine shock tests as CC though, you aren't using any of that are you?
    20,000gal in-ground 16x36 sentry pools vinyl liner, Pentair sand filter, Pentair minimax NT heater, auto-cover, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Quote Originally Posted by dfahrion View Post
    I'm sure an expert will be along shortly offer more help, but it is clear to me your CYA test isn't correct or something else is going on you have not mentioned.
    I see 19 3" tablets, that alone would boost your CYA by 40, plus you've added granules for another 26. If it really started at 35 you should be at 100 by now.

    How are you testing? The K2006 doesn't have 28 or 35 marks for CYA, only 30, 40, 50, etc.
    Double check your doing all the steps and read all of the notes here:
    Pool school: CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

    As far as something else going on, has there been unusual amounts of rain overflowing the pool or causing large amounts of pool water to need to be dumped (as in several feet of water)? Or have you had to add water constantly? The only way to get rid of that much CYA would be to replace water, so if the testing is correct a lot of water must be getting replaced somehow.
    I've personally never seen CC above 0.5 so not sure what might cause that. I've heard non-chlorine shock tests as CC though, you aren't using any of that are you?
    I have not used any non chlorine shock. I am using the Taylor R0013 drops that I bought new this year. I had to kind of guess with the test since I could always see the dot until it got harder to see under the 30 mark. I fill the pool water to the 7 mark and fill the R0013 liquid to the 14 and shake for 30 seconds. Then I drop it into the tube until it gets too cloudy to see the dot, which never happens until it is all the way full. I even test outside with my back to the sun and hold it at waist high. We have gotten a lot of rain, and only lost a little as the skimmer was full to top a couple times with water. I have not drained any water out of my pool. I have not tested since adding the 12oz stabilizer a day ago. Too soon probably. Is there some unusual thing where constant slam eats up cya? I think I read about that. I'm going to put some chlorine in my tester again to make sure there isnt algae in there. I even bought ammonia test drops at fish store and I have none. I'll go reread the pool school threat you sent me. In hinesight, I feel like I have done everything correct except maybe take 2 days to test every hour.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
    City water, BBB

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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    In the heat of the summer, I was needing to add about an inch of water every 10 or 15 days. Thats when we had no rain. I was hoping it was evaporation. I did try to look around for leaks. I did not do the bucket test. I had a couple drip, drip leaks on the suction side by the 2nd basket. The connector was dripping. We replaced that. I now have a smaller leak from the automatic chlorinator connection. It just drips a little. The only new addition to the pool this year was our pvc weights on the pool stairs filled with cement and sealed with pvc glue. I have a plumbers liner under the stairs to prevent holes.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Quote Originally Posted by R&S View Post
    I have not used any non chlorine shock. I am using the Taylor R0013 drops that I bought new this year. I had to kind of guess with the test since I could always see the dot until it got harder to see under the 30 mark. I fill the pool water to the 7 mark and fill the R0013 liquid to the 14 and shake for 30 seconds. Then I drop it into the tube until it gets too cloudy to see the dot, which never happens until it is all the way full. I even test outside with my back to the sun and hold it at waist high. We have gotten a lot of rain, and only lost a little as the skimmer was full to top a couple times with water. I have not drained any water out of my pool. I have not tested since adding the 12oz stabilizer a day ago. Too soon probably. Is there some unusual thing where constant slam eats up cya? I think I read about that. I'm going to put some chlorine in my tester again to make sure there isnt algae in there. I even bought ammonia test drops at fish store and I have none. I'll go reread the pool school threat you sent me. In hinesight, I feel like I have done everything correct except maybe take 2 days to test every hour.
    Something is not right. You should be using the CYA mixing tube to "squirt" your pool water and R-0013 solution into the comparator tube. You should not be "dropping" that mixture into the comparator tube-that would take a long time,, and I am not sure which plastic bottle you would be using. Perhaps you meant "squirt". With all those pucks and stabilizer, your CYA is likely higher then 28 ppm. No, the SLAM process should not eat up the CYA. A high level of CYA (which I suspect you have) will require you to raise the level of your FC to SLAM level (see Pool Math button above). Check your CYA level again.

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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Quote Originally Posted by OTPirate View Post
    Something is not right. You should be using the CYA mixing tube to "squirt" your pool water and R-0013 solution into the comparator tube. You should not be "dropping" that mixture into the comparator tube-that would take a long time,, and I am not sure which plastic bottle you would be using. Perhaps you meant "squirt". With all those pucks and stabilizer, your CYA is likely higher then 28 ppm. No, the SLAM process should not eat up the CYA. A high level of CYA (which I suspect you have) will require you to raise the level of your FC to SLAM level (see Pool Math button above). Check your CYA level again.
    I am using the CYA mixing tube and squirting the pool water and R-0013 solution into the comparator tube. Sorry to confuse you all with the wrong terminology. What you say make sense but my testing says otherwise. That is why I am posting. Two days ago the CYA test was getting cloudy a little lower than 30. I could still see the dot barely. I know not to trust the pool store, but I took in 2 samples this summer to get another humans opinion. They said 35 cya on 7/5/16. I went one other time and I got the a similar reading, under 35. All summer my chlorine loss for 24 hours was between 15 -24 per day with 2 - 4 of that overnight. I''ll check CYA now even though I added 12 oz cya a day ago. I appreciate your help.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
    City water, BBB

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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    I just check my cya again. I took photos but do not know how to upload them. I could still see the dot at 30 barely. I could clearly see the dot at 100. Is there an easy easy way to copy paste my photos from my phone or computer or upload. I want to show everyone what my test looks like.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
    City water, BBB

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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Lot's of confusion in this thread.....seems to center around testing.

    my chlorine loss for 24 hours was between 15 -24 per day with 2 - 4 of that overnight.
    That's almost not possible....that about 3 gallons each day of 8.25% bleach......is that what you have been adding?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    duraleigh,

    I am using 10% liquid shock. I average (2) 128 0z a day.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    That's about 15 ppm and normal pools will use 2-4 ppm. So, what's going on with your pool? I have absolutely no idea but here is what I would suggest.

    SLAM your pool. Don't toss in this or that or do this because it seems like a good idea.....don't do ANY of that.

    Tell me what your water looks like right now, please.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Does your pool have an automatic fill? Maybe it's stuck on? I see you are AG but you it's still possible.
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Quote Originally Posted by R&S View Post
    duraleigh,

    I am using 10% liquid shock. I average (2) 128 0z a day.
    I would then suspect something odd about that "10% liquid shock".... like how old is it. Could it be really old stock..like last years or before??

    How about stop using that and try your local grocery store's bleach. Just the plain 8.25% stuff from a store with frequent turn over of stock. Just to see if that changes anything?
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    My pool looks clear. It always has. I check at 7 am, 2pm and 8:30pm and sometimes 11 pm to add a little more if not at 19 ppm to work at night. I always do the taylor kit and input numbers in the pool calculator. I've been going for 19ppm as a target for slamming. I saw a 1.5ppm cc in June so I started slamming then. About 2.5 weeks into it I realized I needed to run the pump 24/7. I haven't turned it off since. The only corner I cut is I use 1 scoop instead of two with the 0870 powder. I fill to the 10 line and multiply by .5

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    Does your pool have an automatic fill? Maybe it's stuck on? I see you are AG but you it's still possible.
    pabeader,

    I dont use an automatic fill.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    I would then suspect something odd about that "10% liquid shock".... like how old is it. Could it be really old stock..like last years or before??

    How about stop using that and try your local grocery store's bleach. Just the plain 8.25% stuff from a store with frequent turn over of stock. Just to see if that changes anything?
    YippeeSkippy,

    I was using Watson Pool Supply 10%. For the last month I've been using my local Kroger 10%, stored inside their store and inside my garage. They are out now so I guess bleach might be an option. I just took a sample of water and I am at 18ppm still and only have .5 cc. I had a 4 cc this morning! I cleaned out my testing tube with chlorine this morning, let it sit and rinsed well. I thought I tried that once but maybe I did not let it sit long enough before. I'll do an overnight and see. My pool is very clear and nice looking. I have recently smelled chloramines at night though.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    My husband treats our lawn with a fertilizer in the late spring. It is a liquid fertilizer and sprays on behind the mower. Maybe that is in the pool. When he mows, pieces of grass get in the pool
    Could this possibly have something to do with it? Ammonia from fertilizer that eats CYA and then gets eliminated by the high chlorine?

    That or some autofill with a massive leak like pabeader mentioned are the only explanations as to why BOTH CYA and chlorine don't hold.

    e: Alright no autofill then.

    e2. I'd be tempted to fill a bucket with tap/hose water, add newly cut grass clippings and do an ammonia test.
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Good Catch Mr. Bruce! Ammonia from Grass clippings.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    I want to add the temperature of the water and nights have dropped. Maybe this will help. I still don't get why I cant get a normal cya reading. Maybe later I'll get photobucket to cooperate with me so I can upload the cya test result pic. Photobucket wasnt letting me log in on my very old account. I have been buying 6 or 7 (cases 4) shock a week and using it. I dont know about how long the stores have had their stuff. I thought it was the best bang for my buck at 9.99. Not if it is not working at 100%. I've had my tab for over a year and they stay outside year round. The Stabilizer was from Walmart puchased in June or July.
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bruce View Post
    Could this possibly have something to do with it? Ammonia from fertilizer that eats CYA and then gets eliminated by the high chlorine?

    That or some autofill with a massive leak like pabeader mentioned are the only explanations as to why BOTH CYA and chlorine don't hold.

    e: Alright no autofill then.

    e2. I'd be tempted to fill a bucket with tap/hose water, add newly cut grass clippings and do an ammonia test.

    Mr. Bruce,
    I have been worried about the fertilizer. I did do an ammonia test on the pool water itself. It turned yellow as I recall. I think green means ammonia. Suppose I can try that when he mows the lawn again. Thanks
    13,500 AG 24 round, Hayward Xstream cartridge filter w Swimpro voyager filtration series,
    Hayward 1.5 hp pump, Install 2013, Taylor K-2006, auto trichlor feeder, Hayward Dave the Diver cleaner,
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Please don't try to find any obscure causes. You need to stay with mainstream issues and I can tell you that testing error is often a huge problem.....ammonia and grass clippings are not.
    I just took a sample of water and I am at 18ppm still and only have .5 cc.
    Okay, that's perfectly normal. I want you to test again sometime convenient before dark.....maybe 7-8 PM and let us know the FC. I really don't care about the CC or any of the other tests.....post them if you want but I am ONLY concerned with this huge FC drop.

    I am assuming your FC was somewhere around 19-20 or so this AM and you have not added any since that AM test, is that right? Please don't add any chlorine to the pool until AFTER you test this evening.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Combined chlorine going higher despite slamming

    Did you test?
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