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Thread: Electronic Descaler

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    Electronic Descaler

    I have looked for threads on this subject, and maybe I am using the wrong terms. Are these effective for an SWG pool? We get a lot of Lime scale in Vegas, and there are similar products for in-home use and appear to be effective in stopping limescale buildup.
    Cement Pond <--- build - 15K gal, 16 x 34 Rectangle, All Pentair - 520 Filter, 2 Intelliflo 2VST pumps (3hp) - 1 filter/1 water features, EasyTouch 8, Screen Logic, IC60 SWG,
    Pop-up Cleaners (Wet Deck and steps), 2 LED Bubblers, 3 LED 24" waterfalls, 5G LED Pool Light, Quartscapes Reflections Tahoe Blue plaster, Real Coral coping/deck, TF-100 Test Kit, 1766 Salt test kit.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Those devices are dubious at best and fail to actually remove any calcium from the water.

    Since your pool is new and almost complete, you need to get yourself one of the test kits we recommend and you need to read through Pool School to understand how we approach the science of pool water treatment and maintenance.

    The way to keep scale from forming in your pool is to properly manage the water chemistry and keep everything balanced. We use a saturation index calculation called the "Calcite Saturation Index" or CSI. If you properly manage your CSI, you will not get scaling. If you allow you water chemistry to drift around and do not properly manage your water, you will get horrible calcium scaling. With a new pool, your testing regimen is going to be daily especially during the critical plaster startup stages. There are no cheap solutions here or quick fixes...it's rigorous self-testing of the water and committed and consistent management of the chemistry levels in your pool.

    If you want to plan something for the future, you might consider hooking your autofill line you have for the pool up to a water softener. Limiting evaporation and refill with hard municipal water is the only way to keep your calcium levels in check.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Those devices are dubious at best and fail to actually remove any calcium from the water.

    Since your pool is new and almost complete, you need to get yourself one of the test kits we recommend and you need to read through Pool School to understand how we approach the science of pool water treatment and maintenance.

    The way to keep scale from forming in your pool is to properly manage the water chemistry and keep everything balanced. We use a saturation index calculation called the "Calcite Saturation Index" or CSI. If you properly manage your CSI, you will not get scaling. If you allow you water chemistry to drift around and do not properly manage your water, you will get horrible calcium scaling. With a new pool, your testing regimen is going to be daily especially during the critical plaster startup stages. There are no cheap solutions here or quick fixes...it's rigorous self-testing of the water and committed and consistent management of the chemistry levels in your pool.

    If you want to plan something for the future, you might consider hooking your autofill line you have for the pool up to a water softener. Limiting evaporation and refill with hard municipal water is the only way to keep your calcium levels in check.
    I have your test kit, TF-100 and 1766 salt, etc. My tap water test is in my build thread somewhere.

    I have a descaler unit for inside my home that is passive (uses some sort of mineral that the water passes through). We have a terrible time with limescale here and the passive unit I have really does work. I do not like water softeners for my house, as I like our water as it is for various reasons, including drinking. This system, and the passive one I have for my home, as I understand, cause the hard water/lime molecules to stop binding to surfaces ( I am clearly not a chemist) as opposed to making it "softwater". My concern, for the most part is the SWG unit and extending its life as long as possible, and to a lesser extent the tile in the pool and other equipment. The water here plays all heck with heaters etc..

    But as I understand what you are saying, using an SWG and keeping the water balanced will also stop the scale from binding and buildup?
    Cement Pond <--- build - 15K gal, 16 x 34 Rectangle, All Pentair - 520 Filter, 2 Intelliflo 2VST pumps (3hp) - 1 filter/1 water features, EasyTouch 8, Screen Logic, IC60 SWG,
    Pop-up Cleaners (Wet Deck and steps), 2 LED Bubblers, 3 LED 24" waterfalls, 5G LED Pool Light, Quartscapes Reflections Tahoe Blue plaster, Real Coral coping/deck, TF-100 Test Kit, 1766 Salt test kit.

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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Balanced water chemistry is the real key to managing scale in your pool.

    Break out that Good TF-100 and post a set of test results and we can help get your pool balanced (If it's not)

    Do you have any visible scale?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Balanced water chemistry is the real key to managing scale in your pool.

    Break out that Good TF-100 and post a set of test results and we can help get your pool balanced (If it's not)

    Do you have any visible scale?
    Pool is new, and gets water on Thursday morning... I'm being a bit proactive, having had a pool prior and having to deal with that lime scale.
    Cement Pond <--- build - 15K gal, 16 x 34 Rectangle, All Pentair - 520 Filter, 2 Intelliflo 2VST pumps (3hp) - 1 filter/1 water features, EasyTouch 8, Screen Logic, IC60 SWG,
    Pop-up Cleaners (Wet Deck and steps), 2 LED Bubblers, 3 LED 24" waterfalls, 5G LED Pool Light, Quartscapes Reflections Tahoe Blue plaster, Real Coral coping/deck, TF-100 Test Kit, 1766 Salt test kit.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Just to be clear here it is not Our TF-100, the TF-100 is put out by TF-Testkits, it was initially developed to meet the need for a test kit tailored to the TFP concept of pool testing, along the way the forum ownership was transferred to Dave / TF-Testkits when the former forum owner decided they no longer wanted to be involved. TF-Testkits was owned by Dave (duraleigh) until his retirement and move to Florida a year or two ago. I may have some of the exact details off, but the overall point is TF-Testkits which makes the TF-100 was founded to produce an optimized test kit for the TFP method.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Daddy mark, if your SWG is an Aquarite, it has a built-in feature whereby it reverses polarity to shed scale/descale. You're still advised to insect and maybe gently clean cell every 3 mos., but in my experience, this self-cleaning feature has been working.

    Can't say about other brands, but worth looking up on whatever make and model your PB used.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Quote Originally Posted by daddymack View Post
    My concern, for the most part is the SWG unit and extending its life as long as possible, and to a lesser extent the tile in the pool and other equipment. The water here plays all heck with heaters etc..
    Your plaster startup will have its own requirements for chemistry that will last for 30 days as the plaster cures. Others can advise you on plaster startups but, during that time, there should be no salt in your water and your SWG should not be running. I would even go so far as to say that the SWG should not be installed until after the plaster startup period is over.

    Once the plaster startup is over, your goal will be to keep all of your pool water chemical parameters within the ranges specified in Pool School. You will also need to track your CSI (which PoolMath calculates for you) with your normal pool testing. For a salt water plaster pool that uses an SWG, you want to maintain a slightly negative CSI with a CSI value between 0 and -0.3. By keeping your CSI slightly negative, you are ensuring that your water is slightly undersaturated with respect to calcium carbonate. In a pool with an SWG, there is a huge difference in pH between the bulk pool water and the water that is inside the SWG cell when it is generating chlorine. The pH inside the cell can be as high as 11 while the bulk pool water is sitting in a normal range (7.2-7.8). The huge increase in pH is what drives the scaling inside the cell. Down the road, if your acid demand remains high (which tends to be the case for plaster pools with SWGs in the desert southwest), then you can consider adding borates to your pool water which buffers water at higher pH and helps alleviate pH rise. It also protects the cell against scaling because the pH rise inside the cell will be cut in half.

    As for heaters, the biggest problem for them is the heat exchanger rotting out due to wild pH fluctuations. Calcium scale is rarely an issue for heaters if the CSI is properly managed. Heater damage tend to occur when people add chemicals to the skimmer (which you should never do) and/or use trichlor pucks for chlorination which are acidic and cause the pH and TA to drop.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Electronic Descaler

    Thanks for all the great info!.. My SWG is an IC-60. And right now, I just have the spacer in until after the pool has had water for 30 days
    Cement Pond <--- build - 15K gal, 16 x 34 Rectangle, All Pentair - 520 Filter, 2 Intelliflo 2VST pumps (3hp) - 1 filter/1 water features, EasyTouch 8, Screen Logic, IC60 SWG,
    Pop-up Cleaners (Wet Deck and steps), 2 LED Bubblers, 3 LED 24" waterfalls, 5G LED Pool Light, Quartscapes Reflections Tahoe Blue plaster, Real Coral coping/deck, TF-100 Test Kit, 1766 Salt test kit.

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