Pool Equipment Experts! Help me do this right...

[cheesewolf]

I am about to be a new pool owner and have already decided upon everything but the actual equipment. My pool will be 19' by 38' rectangular with a 9' deep end (due to kids required diving board!) which equates to around 33,000GAL I believe. I have already decided on the coping, decking, pool surface, etc. Now I need help with the tough stuff (for me).

Please give me your expert opinion on:

1. SWG - I was going to just go Liquid Chlorine, but I travel too much to make sure I keep it perfect. Seems like SWG will give me a bit more wiggle room. Which one do I get?
2. What size/brand pump will work? (I have no spa, just pool. Also, I plan to use a robot to clean)
3. DE Filter?
4. Two LED lights in pool enough?
5. Heater recommendations? We plan to heat the whole pool during the few winter months (Austin, TX) vs having a spa. Kids and wife would rather be active vs sitting...
6. Cleaning Robot - Thinking something in the Dolphin Supreme line like the M5? Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for all the help. this is my first pool and I want to do it right and learn from everybody's exeperience. I have already been to pool school and been trolling this forum for weeks, figured it was time to solicit advice.

 

[Mr Bruce]

1. SWG is good for the traveler! I think an IC-60 would be enough.
2. This is my next pump Hayward Super Pool Pump 1.5 HP | SP2610X152S | Pool Supply 4 Less
3. Most people are partial to the equipment they have. I love my sand filter, but that doesn't mean it's the best. Pool School - Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters
4. That sounds like plenty to me. I have one old school light that is good enough.
5. NG > Heat pump. Solar cover either way for sure.
6. The Dolphins are great.

Sounds like the design is done. Hopefully some consideration was put into skimmer and return numbers and locations. Did you go with plaster? If so we'll be pool twins.

 

[Griswald]

7. Call your insurance company re:diving board.

 

[pooldv]

IC-60 swg
342001 VS Superflo 1-1/2hp or 011055 VS Intellifo 3hp
I think I like sand better
Our single 500w light is never on because it is a bug magnet
Doheny's Discovery Robot, Doheny's Discovery Powered by Dolphin?
8 mil solar cover, Solar panels with Solartouch or Suntouch and a heat pump

 

[bmoreswim]

1. SWG - Absolutely do this. Get the same brand as the pump and any automation you have. And get the largest size they sell. (Pentair IC-60 and Hayward T-15). Without automation you may be limited to 20% increments on the SWCG settings - which can create challenges.

2. What size/brand pump will work? (I have no spa, just pool. Also, I plan to use a robot to clean) A 2-speed in the 1 - 1 1/2 HP range is my thought. Others will be more specific. Pick Hayward or Pentair for simplicity of choices.

3. DE Filter? Any type will work. They all have some +/-'s. Be sure to oversize or way oversize this - lower frequency of cleaning/backwashing.

4. Two LED lights in pool enough? I have two in that exact size/depth pool. Hayward ColorLogic 4.0's to be exact (full size lights). Ideally 3 would be fantastic but 2 is pretty good. They are along the house side our our rectangle pool and do leave one darkish area between them on the house side - and the darker colors are beautiful but will be the ones that don't overwhelm you with brightness. Don't cheap out and get a white LED. Go color - you will not regret it.

5. Heater recommendations? We plan to heat the whole pool during the few winter months (Austin, TX) vs having a spa. Kids and wife would rather be active vs sitting... Raypak heaters are highly recommended here regardless of what brand the rest of your equipment is (you have natural gas service I presume?) This will be pricey to heat all winter but that is a personal decision. A cover of some type will, practically speaking, be required to retain the heat you are generating. Have you considered an automatic cover? With a rectangle pool it's an easy add (and only $12-15K) and will make covering it a dream.

6. Cleaning Robot - Thinking something in the Dolphin Supreme line like the M5? Thoughts? A good one. This one also ranks high...Doheny's Discovery Powered by Dolphin http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/119250-Doheny-s-Discovery-Powered-by-Dolphin

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7. Call your insurance company re:diving board.

True that. Check both your base policy and your umbrella policy (they can say different things I learned). I had to change insurance companies to have a diving board.

 

[Isaac-1]

On the topic of diving boards, it is difficult to design a pool that is only 38 ft long and still have a safe diving envelope, it not just about the depth, but the intercept point on the slope going to the shallow end. My pool is 20x40 and I feel it is marginal on profile for safe diving. If you are going to have a diving board, I strongly urge you to err on the side of caution with the safe diving envelope. If you have not already done so please review http://www.divingboardsafety.net/06-052ansi-standard.pdf

 

[chiefwej]

SWG is great and I would never have a pool without one. That said you are in an area of Texas where almost every pool builder will balk at a salt pool. Most council against salt. Some even refuse to build with salt, while others reduce or eliminate any warranty with a SWG pool. They love using lots of that beautiful, soft, easy to work with, Texas limestone. However, in a hot, relatively dry climate, without very regular rain to wash salt away that lovely stone can be subject to salt damage after a few years. So if you are going with a SWG pool (which I highly recommend) you should minimize the amount of natural stone around the pool and insure that all stone work is sealed to protect it. Additionally it should be re sealed on a regular basis.

My pool kind of went to the extreme, it was designed and built as a salt pool. No natural stone anywhere. No coping, just a cantilevered concrete deck that is protected with a textured acrylic coating.

While each type filter has its pros and cons, the con of the DE filter is it requires the most maintainance of any. Again, I am not trying to sway you against DE. That's what I chose, but if you haven't, you do need to read the article on filter selection for pros and cons of each type.

Pool School - Pool Filter Comparison

 

[cheesewolf]

Thanks for the input Mr Bruce! I would love your input on returns and skimmers too.

I am thinking of going with Stonescapes Mini Pebble right now but I started with White Plaster.

Why do you like sand?

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Good advice on the diving board thanks.

 

[Mr Bruce]

Well everyone else had great advice also!

If you can afford the pebble finish do it. I could not and although I love my plaster, I am going to find a way to get to the pebble price next time.

I am mostly speaking in ignorance because I have never touched a cartridge or DE filter, but it seems you have to add DE after every backwash and the cartridges needs regular cleaning? With sand, you just Backwash/Rinse every so often (I bet I did it 5 times this summer) and then clean the sand once at the beginning of the season. Takes about an hour or less.

Problem with a sand filter is that if you every get fine stuff in your pool it can take awhile. Dead algae, laundry detergent (don't ask me how I know). With my pool I have to be very diligent to never let algae get started since I have 1 skimmer and 1 return the circulation is atrocious. Speaking of skimmers and returns:

I usually sit there and fantasize about tearing up concrete and putting a return in the deep end so I'd have at least 2. Not having movement there creates a dead spot for leaves, etc. So more returns the better, on the steps, every corner, etc. Moving the water in a circle is usually best. Having skimmers downwind helps capture floaty things too. If I had it all over to do again, I'd have 2 skimmers and 4 returns and a working bottom drain. As it is, if my skimmer (only source of water for the pump) gets clogged I'm fubared.

 

[cheesewolf]

Well everyone else had great advice also!

If you can afford the pebble finish do it. I could not and although I love my plaster, I am going to find a way to get to the pebble price next time.

I am mostly speaking in ignorance because I have never touched a cartridge or DE filter, but it seems you have to add DE after every backwash and the cartridges needs regular cleaning? With sand, you just Backwash/Rinse every so often (I bet I did it 5 times this summer) and then clean the sand once at the beginning of the season. Takes about an hour or less.

Problem with a sand filter is that if you every get fine stuff in your pool it can take awhile. Dead algae, laundry detergent (don't ask me how I know). With my pool I have to be very diligent to never let algae get started since I have 1 skimmer and 1 return the circulation is atrocious. Speaking of skimmers and returns:

I usually sit there and fantasize about tearing up concrete and putting a return in the deep end so I'd have at least 2. Not having movement there creates a dead spot for leaves, etc. So more returns the better, on the steps, every corner, etc. Moving the water in a circle is usually best. Having skimmers downwind helps capture floaty things too. If I had it all over to do again, I'd have 2 skimmers and 4 returns and a working bottom drain. As it is, if my skimmer (only source of water for the pump) gets clogged I'm fubared.

Yeah totally appreciate everyone's input, thought I was replying to each but still getting the hang of actually posting and replying to the board!

- - - Updated - - -

7. Call your insurance company re:diving board.

Just verified with my insurance company that I am ok!

- - - Updated - - -

1. SWG - Absolutely do this. Get the same brand as the pump and any automation you have. And get the largest size they sell. (Pentair IC-60 and Hayward T-15). Without automation you may be limited to 20% increments on the SWCG settings - which can create challenges.

2. What size/brand pump will work? (I have no spa, just pool. Also, I plan to use a robot to clean) A 2-speed in the 1 - 1 1/2 HP range is my thought. Others will be more specific. Pick Hayward or Pentair for simplicity of choices.

3. DE Filter? Any type will work. They all have some +/-'s. Be sure to oversize or way oversize this - lower frequency of cleaning/backwashing.

4. Two LED lights in pool enough? I have two in that exact size/depth pool. Hayward ColorLogic 4.0's to be exact (full size lights). Ideally 3 would be fantastic but 2 is pretty good. They are along the house side our our rectangle pool and do leave one darkish area between them on the house side - and the darker colors are beautiful but will be the ones that don't overwhelm you with brightness. Don't cheap out and get a white LED. Go color - you will not regret it.

5. Heater recommendations? We plan to heat the whole pool during the few winter months (Austin, TX) vs having a spa. Kids and wife would rather be active vs sitting... Raypak heaters are highly recommended here regardless of what brand the rest of your equipment is (you have natural gas service I presume?) This will be pricey to heat all winter but that is a personal decision. A cover of some type will, practically speaking, be required to retain the heat you are generating. Have you considered an automatic cover? With a rectangle pool it's an easy add (and only $12-15K) and will make covering it a dream.

6. Cleaning Robot - Thinking something in the Dolphin Supreme line like the M5? Thoughts? A good one. This one also ranks high...Doheny's Discovery Powered by Dolphin http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/119250-Doheny-s-Discovery-Powered-by-Dolphin

- - - Updated - - -



True that. Check both your base policy and your umbrella policy (they can say different things I learned). I had to change insurance companies to have a diving board.

Thanks for the automation advice, I hadn't considered keeping it consistent but it makes total sense.

- - - Updated - - -

SWG is great and I would never have a pool without one. That said you are in an area of Texas where almost every pool builder will balk at a salt pool. Most council against salt. Some even refuse to build with salt, while others reduce or eliminate any warranty with a SWG pool. They love using lots of that beautiful, soft, easy to work with, Texas limestone. However, in a hot, relatively dry climate, without very regular rain to wash salt away that lovely stone can be subject to salt damage after a few years. So if you are going with a SWG pool (which I highly recommend) you should minimize the amount of natural stone around the pool and insure that all stone work is sealed to protect it. Additionally it should be re sealed on a regular basis.

My pool kind of went to the extreme, it was designed and built as a salt pool. No natural stone anywhere. No coping, just a cantilevered concrete deck that is protected with a textured acrylic coating.

While each type filter has its pros and cons, the con of the DE filter is it requires the most maintainance of any. Again, I am not trying to sway you against DE. That's what I chose, but if you haven't, you do need to read the article on filter selection for pros and cons of each type.

Pool School - Pool Filter Comparison

So I am currently looking into a travertine coping and travertine pavers for the decking to beat this South Texas sun, but I am getting feedback about SWG with Travertine. Maybe I should look into your cantilevered concrete route?

- - - Updated - - -

Well everyone else had great advice also!

If you can afford the pebble finish do it. I could not and although I love my plaster, I am going to find a way to get to the pebble price next time.

I am mostly speaking in ignorance because I have never touched a cartridge or DE filter, but it seems you have to add DE after every backwash and the cartridges needs regular cleaning? With sand, you just Backwash/Rinse every so often (I bet I did it 5 times this summer) and then clean the sand once at the beginning of the season. Takes about an hour or less.

Problem with a sand filter is that if you every get fine stuff in your pool it can take awhile. Dead algae, laundry detergent (don't ask me how I know). With my pool I have to be very diligent to never let algae get started since I have 1 skimmer and 1 return the circulation is atrocious. Speaking of skimmers and returns:

I usually sit there and fantasize about tearing up concrete and putting a return in the deep end so I'd have at least 2. Not having movement there creates a dead spot for leaves, etc. So more returns the better, on the steps, every corner, etc. Moving the water in a circle is usually best. Having skimmers downwind helps capture floaty things too. If I had it all over to do again, I'd have 2 skimmers and 4 returns and a working bottom drain. As it is, if my skimmer (only source of water for the pump) gets clogged I'm fubared.

Two returns and two skimmers enough?

 

[setsailsoon]

Only things I have to add are:

• consider a cartridge filter. No back-flush water consumption, better filtration of small particles and if sized correctly they go a long time between cleaning and cartridges last a long time. Mine last over 2 years and I replaced only because I thought it was getting old. Cleaning is a snap with cheap hose end cleaning tools available online. Clean when pressure drop increases to 10-20% depending on which expert you listen to. I split the difference and it ends up once every 2 months.
• We have about 1/3 size of your pool and use 2-9watt LED lights-just right for us so you may need more. We love the lights but we also have a screened-enclosure. Not cheap with the new Florida storm codes but worth it's weight in gold. We swim every night bug-free. Cost about $15K.
• You didn't mention automation. After a lot of investigation we went with WiFi phone remote Jandy system (rs-12). Turned out great for us... we can monitor start/stop pool equipment from anywhere and no need for a wall mounted control inside the house. All the major manufacturers have them. We went with Jandy only because the rest of our system was that brand. Gives us great comfort that we can start stop remotely. As I write this we're in Italy. We check the pool with a camera from our self-installed security system ($500 at Best Buy) and shut down/start any of the pool equipment if something goes wrong like a broken pipe etc.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[cheesewolf]

Only things I have to add are:

• consider a cartridge filter. No back-flush water consumption, better filtration of small particles and if sized correctly they go a long time between cleaning and cartridges last a long time. Mine last over 2 years and I replaced only because I thought it was getting old. Cleaning is a snap with cheap hose end cleaning tools available online. Clean when pressure drop increases to 10-20% depending on which expert you listen to. I split the difference and it ends up once every 2 months.
• We have about 1/3 size of your pool and use 2-9watt LED lights-just right for us so you may need more. We love the lights but we also have a screened-enclosure. Not cheap with the new Florida storm codes but worth it's weight in gold. We swim every night bug-free. Cost about $15K.
• You didn't mention automation. After a lot of investigation we went with WiFi phone remote Jandy system (rs-12). Turned out great for us... we can monitor start/stop pool equipment from anywhere and no need for a wall mounted control inside the house. All the major manufacturers have them. We went with Jandy only because the rest of our system was that brand. Gives us great comfort that we can start stop remotely. As I write this we're in Italy. We check the pool with a camera from our self-installed security system ($500 at Best Buy) and shut down/start any of the pool equipment if something goes wrong like a broken pipe etc.

I hope this helps.

Chris

Thanks! I like that cartridge suggestion on filtering, wonder how many my size pool would take. Also, I am just starting my automation research now actually based on a previous poster's suggestion. Anyone else have automation suggestions?

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks! I like that cartridge suggestion on filtering, wonder how many my size pool would take. Also, I am just starting my automation research now actually based on a previous poster's suggestion. Anyone else have automation suggestions?

Newer filter cartridges are quite large. I have only one cartridge and they have filter housings that go to very large pump sizes so I'm pretty sure you can use just one filter.

Chris

 

[chiefwej]

Cartridge filter is kind of the middle choice, and pairs well with a SWG system. It requires more maintenance than sand, but less than DE. It filters finer than sand, but not as fine as DE. With sand filter you lose a lot of water to backwashing. With DE you still lose water to backwashing, but not as much. With cartridge, no water loss, no backwashing, but every cleaning is a break-down process. The fact that you don't backwash means that your salt and CYA levels remain stable without regular needed additions, which is helpful in a SWG pool.

They all have their trade-offs, take your pick.

 

[Isaac-1]

Just a couple of things:

You will find advocates for each type of filter, personally I love my DE filter, previously had sand filters, the DE is a bit more work though

As to skimmers and returns, you want at least 2 skimmer located downwind from the seasonal wind, if your wind patterns are like ours that would be north west wind in the cooler months and southern winds in the warmer months. You also want them to be individually plumbed so you can shut off one or both without having to resort to plugging.

2 returns would be the absolute minimal (takes careful positioning and setting to avoid dead spots in the water flow) I would consider, returns are cheap though, so add a couple of more to make sure you have good circulation.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Call me superstitious.. But I wouldn't install a diving board for a huge sack of cash...

Have you ever read a story about a diving board??

 

[bmoreswim]

How about ride a motorcycle? Just sayin'. [emoji6]

 

[TexasDeano]

Well, I'm a noob like yourself. I've signed the contract and are waiting on permits. But I've done extensive research so I'll share a few things I've learned. It will feel good to contribute something for once .

1. SWG - I put a lot of research into this and came to the same conclusion. I went with a SWG. Most PBs did recommended against it, but the PB I went with was okay with it and offered the same warranties.

2. My pump is the Pentair Intelliflo 3050 VS/SVRS pump. I found the key is to get variable speed and a pump that can handle a pool twice the size of what your building. That will increase the life of the pump.

3. I struggled long and hard on filters. It came down to 50/50 DE or Cartridge. The new cartridge filters are capable of sub 10 micron filtering, which approaches DE. But because I was 50/50 I let my PB break the tie and he highly recommended the DE. But I don't think you can go wrong with either.

4. I have a small pool and will have 3 LED's. That is so the tanning ledge is covered. A couple of other tips I found useful is to place them so that they don't shine towards the house and patio. Also if you plan to swim laps, place them so you don't swim directly at them.

5. Oh man, I went back and forth on heaters. I don't have a spa and live near Dallas. So our winters are mild as well. I considered solar heating (http://www.solartexas.com/products/solarpool/pool.html), but never could get a list of customers that I could call and talk to. I've read you can extend your swim period from 5 months to 9 months. That would be a big deal. I did get a quote of about $4K to install them. But I held off because I'd like to speak with some customers that can validate the data the company pushes. So in the mean time I had my PB to pour a larger equipment pad so I can add a heater later if I want to.

6. Yep, my research determined that a higher end robot cleaner is worth it's weight in gold. I plan to go with one of the Dolphin Supreme or S-Series models. I still have some time to decide on which one.

Anyway, I hope this helps some. Good luck with your build. Mine should start in earnest in a couple of weeks.

 

[chiefwej]

Well, I'm a noob like yourself. I've signed the contract and are waiting on permits. But I've done extensive research so I'll share a few things I've learned. It will feel good to contribute something for once .

1. SWG - I put a lot of research into this and came to the same conclusion. I went with a SWG. Most PBs did recommended against it, but the PB I went with was okay with it and offered the same warranties.two key things in your choice of SWG, size and brand. They are rated based on their maximum output running 24 hours a day. You don't want to run 24 hrs. Get one at least twice as big as the rating. For warranty and future automation it helps if it's the same brand as other equipment.

2. My pump is the Pentair Intelliflo 3050 VS/SVRS pump. I found the key is to get variable speed and a pump that can handle a pool twice the size of what your building. That will increase the life of the pump. I recommend that you not use a SVRS pump. The SVRS system can be problematic and modern pools have the protection built in to their design.

3. I struggled long and hard on filters. It came down to 50/50 DE or Cartridge. The new cartridge filters are capable of sub 10 micron filtering, which approaches DE. But because I was 50/50 I let my PB break the tie and he highly recommended the DE. But I don't think you can go wrong with either.I doubt you could ever see a difference in their ability to remove small particulate matter. More important to oversize the filter. Works better and requires service much less frequently. Could mean cleaning a filter once a year vs once a month.

4. I have a small pool and will have 3 LED's. That is so the tanning ledge is covered. A couple of other tips I found useful is to place them so that they don't shine towards the house and patio. Also if you plan to swim laps, place them so you don't swim directly at them.

5. Oh man, I went back and forth on heaters. I don't have a spa and live near Dallas. So our winters are mild as well. I considered solar heating (http://www.solartexas.com/products/solarpool/pool.html), but never could get a list of customers that I could call and talk to. I've read you can extend your swim period from 5 months to 9 months. That would be a big deal. I did get a quote of about $4K to install them. But I held off because I'd like to speak with some customers that can validate the data the company pushes. So in the mean time I had my PB to pour a larger equipment pad so I can add a heater later if I want to.
Good plan. You can add either solar or a heater later for about the same price as doing it now.
6. Yep, my research determined that a higher end robot cleaner is worth it's weight in gold. I plan to go with one of the Dolphin Supreme or S-Series models. I still have some time to decide on which one.

Anyway, I hope this helps some. Good luck with your build. Mine should start in earnest in a couple of weeks.

Above are my comments and suggestions.

 

[crashxx]

On the topic of diving boards, it is difficult to design a pool that is only 38 ft long and still have a safe diving envelope, it not just about the depth, but the intercept point on the slope going to the shallow end. My pool is 20x40 and I feel it is marginal on profile for safe diving. If you are going to have a diving board, I strongly urge you to err on the side of caution with the safe diving envelope. If you have not already done so please review http://www.divingboardsafety.net/06-052ansi-standard.pdf

Agreed! Ours is 20 X 44 8'6" deep and I'd prefer to have a larger deep end.

Another thing I really like that's not that expensive is the flovis check valve/flow meter. I put ours between the filter & heater as recommended in the equipment manuals. Its nice to be able to adjust our VS pump and see how many GPM we're moving.