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Thread: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

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    New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Hi - my wife and I are looking to build our first in-ground family pool. She's 5'2", I'm about 5'10". We have young children ages 4-7. We're leaning towards a casual pool for kids and occasional entertaining. We have a completely level lot. We don't think we want the risk of a diving pool (8 ft. deep end)... seems like a waste of usual space to us and an accident waiting to happen.

    Please provide constructive input and criticism! I've learned so much from each of you in these forums and welcome each of your input on how to build the most practical, pool the first time vs. learning the hard way. Don't have a pool image yet. PB supposed to provide.

    So far, we are looking at:
    • 17' x 35' concrete gunite, approx. 500 sq. ft. free form pool - somewhat of a kidney shape. They call it Altadenan.
    • Pool depth of 3' to 5' - they can do more like 3.3' to 5-3'. We felt 6' deep wouldn't be ideal since it would be over our heads and most of our friends'.
    • Basic concrete with Kool-Deck around the perimeter of the pool. Should we ask PB to do something different or seal after pool built to protect against saltwater?
    • IntelliChlor IC40 SWG ($1,893) - decided against Frog Mineral System from research
    • LED Colored Lighting x 1 ($433 upgrade) - should we consider 2?
    • No spa. No water features, waterfalls, etc.
    • Pentair Rebel suction side cleaner (included)
    • PB recommending white marble plaster. Offering Diamond Brite as a $1,796 upgrade. We are considering it. White looks outdated to me. Is it worth it for durability?
    • 4' swim-out instead of a ladder ($750 option)
    • Electric supply and connection not incuded, PB suggested we budget $1,500 for electrician
    • Will add auto-fill valve for $250 - plan to ask for a shutoff valve to be plumbed to auto-fill line to test for future leaks. PB saying they can't add a drain for overflow since lot is level and there's nowhere to drain to?
    • Estimating $500 to fill pool based on neighbors' experiences with comparable pool size
    • Estimating $500 for dirt removal per PB
    • No mesh cover w/ anchors the first year (we have no trees/leaves nearby)
    • Concrete pad for pool equipment included - plan to ask them to extend pad to 4'x8' for flexibility to add an electric heat pump in future if needed
    • Rheem R410A heat pump offered as a $4,800 option - we'd like it, but may add later
    • Includes 3 deck jets ($1,650)
    • Package includes "standard equipment" - pump filter, plumbing, frost proof tile, start-up chemicals, test kit "and more"


    PB hasn't indicated:

    • what model pool pump or pump filter are included in the build
    • how many skimmers are included - how many do we want? where do we want them located? should each skimmer be on it's own, dedicated vacuum line or are they daisy-chained together? should the Pentair Rebel suction side cleaner be on a vacuum line that's independent from the skimmers?
    • how many returns are included - how many do we want? where do we want them located?
    • how many drains are included and where?

    Am estimating cost @ ~$58K right now despite unknowns of pump type (single, dual, variable speed), pump filter type, etc.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    My very prejudicial input....
    3' shallow end is horribly shallow. In fact, you have to specify carefully if you mean that to be 3' water depth or pool depth. Either way I'd go deeper.
    To me a shallow pool is inherently more dangerous than a deep one, as people love to dive in so giving them diving area room is important to me.
    If all you want to do is stand in a pool, you can. But what about actual swimming? Not hitting your knuckles on the bottom is nice.... floating around in the deep end in a tube or on a float is very nice.

    Deck jets? Hmmmmm....? I'd personally pass on them and instead put the money into the heater now. Or a small water feature that provides soothing sounds. But deck jets seem to me to be short lived attraction, and when in the pool a nuisance if they splat on top of *my* head.

    Good call on ditching that Frog....SWG is the way to go for sure!
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Appreciate the input. Am definitely going SWG now. Will also skip the deck jets as you've suggested.

    Would now like to add a tanning deck to fit at least 2 avg sized, lower beach chairs. As long as it doesn't detract from the sq. ft. of pool.

    As for depth, am leaning toward a "shallow" pool. In other words, no diving board or area. Was at a large club pool this weekend that was 3 ft, 4 ft (largest area), 5 ft (2nd largest) and 6 ft (limited space). Generally everyone was in 3 and 4 ft areas. I could barely stand in 5 ft and 6 ft felt too deep to be useful and no one else was using it either. Perhaps 3.5 ft, 4 ft and 5 ft max depth would be ideal for our pool?
    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    First off welcome, now down to a bit of house keeping stuff, can you narrow your location down for us a bit, nearest large town or part of state would help us give you better advice, as Arkansas has a bit of a transitional climate when it comes to winter temperatures, etc. (the northern / higher elevation part of the state would probably require formal pool closing in the winter vs just dormant pool for the southern part, etc.)

    Now down to your questions, you already seem to know what you don't know, pump type, skimmer locations, number or skimmers and returns, which is a good first step. As to the rest, I don't know if Pentair has some promo on or not, but there have been 2 or 3 recent threads mentioning a free Rebel suction side cleaner, if it is a great promo take it, suction side cleaners work, but generally not as good as robots. Someone the other day compared installing a suction side cleaner in 2016 is sort of like buying a VCR in 2016, sure it works and sort of does the job, ....

    As to the things I see in the design, from the equipment you have listed so far, my first and biggest concern is the IC40, You don't mention an automation system (Intellitouch) and when installing an IC-40 in stand alone operating mode you are limited to very course internal setting levels (20% steps I think) vs 1%? if used with the Intellitouch. If you are looking at a stand alone SWG without upgrading to an automation system look at the Hayward T15 which does 1% steps in stand alone mode.

    Otherwise equipment looks good and basic from what you know so far.

    As to depth, I too tend to say deeper all around, lots of people (me included) regret having a 3 ft shallow end, and hate dragging knuckles on the bottom when trying to swim laps. Another 6, 8 or 12 inches would make all the difference. As to the deep end, kids love jumping into pools, doing cannon balls from the side, etc. and 5 ft is simply too shallow for that to be safe. I know you will find people that say they do cannon balls into 5 ft of water all the time, but all it takes is one person trying for that BIG splash to hit bottom too hard, .....
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Hi Isaac - thanks for your response. I am in NW Arkansas (Bentonville). Yes, I would likely make it a habit to "winterize" as a precaution. Safer than sorry. Though I know people in the area who leaves theirs open year-round without issue. I'm a risk averse person by nature.

    Yes, have learned about the IC40 automation and would go that route to minimize the manual fine tuning required. Possibly the Intellitouch automation controller.

    Depth-wise - my wife rarely leaves 3.5 ft into 4 ft of water. Somewhat annoying. If we weren't going 7-9 ft deep route, perhaps we should opt for a 4-5-6 ft pool? Would a tanning deck be a good substitute for "wasting" space on 3.5 ft for standing around?

    Love the VCR analogy. What pool Robot is preferred over the side suction units like the Pentair Rebel?
    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Miles,

    In the old days, a pool had a shallow end and a deep end. But, today a lot of pools are what is called a sports pools so they have a deep middle and two shallow ends. Like 4' 5.5' 4'.. This allows you to play catch or volley ball where both teams have the same depth of water. Might work for you..

    Here is a pretty good thread on one brand of robot cleaners. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ny-s-Discovery

    If you are not going with automation, I would not buy the Pentair SWG. If you do go with automation, then it would be important to buy the pump, the SWG, and automation from the same supplier.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Got first PB quote: $60K

    17x35 Freeform pool, concrete/gunite, 3'6"-4'-5'6" water level 3 inches less, 513 sq. ft., 15,390 gal.
    Cantilever coping
    White marble plaster
    1 - 4 foot swimout (instead of ladder)
    2 - LED colored underwater lights
    4' of Kool Deck around perimeter of pool from water
    Pentair Rebel suction cleaner
    Stub out in side wall 2 inch pipe
    Auto-fill valve
    2 main drains & hydrostatic relief valve
    2 skimmers, 4 returns all home run to equipment pad
    Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 salt water generator
    Pentair Easy Touch 4PSC-IC40-Single Body 520593 (includes SCG integration & IC40 cell)
    Pentair Easy Touch Wireless Controller for 4 circuit systems 520546
    Pentair Intelliflo VS 3050 pump
    Pentair CC420 Cartridge Filter
    Includes: 18" wall brush, 18" leaf skimmer, thermometer, start up chemicals, flexible vacuum head, test kit, vacuum hose, telescoping 8'-16' pole, 3/4" rope, anchors and hooks, 5"x9" floats
    Schedule 40 plumbing, 6" frost proof standard tile
    Lifetime warranty on shell to hold water, 3 yr warranty on workmanship, equipment - manufacturers' warranties
    Price does not cover conditions such as underground water, rock, utility lines, septic systems or obstacles.

    Extra options:
    Heat pump M6350ti @ $4,595
    Diamond Brite stock colors @ $1,796
    3 Deck jets @ $2,018
    Mesh cover w/ anchors in deck @ $2,870

    Would like to go with Diamond Brite and heater and perhaps increase size to 20x40 ft for $60K (or less). Is this realistic?

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Looks fairly good, I think the intelliflo is likely overkill, but Pentair seems to be getting a one size fits all philosophy on VS pumps lately, with the attitude of just turn down the setting if it is too big.

    We really can't say much on price for your area, as such things vary considerably from market area to market area.

    Although it is common advice here to get bids from at least 3 pool builders as there is often a fairly wide swing between the low and high bidders

    Ike

    p.s. get brand and model on everything, you don't want house brand LED lights for example, also what size plumbing, you want at least 2 inch if it is all home ran, if not home ran you want larger.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Thanks again. PB2 coming tomorrow to scope project. He prefers Pentair equipment and has a great working relationship with them on service and warranty issues.

    Was drawn to the variable speed pump for energy efficiency. Is there another Pentair VS pump model that would work rather than VS 3050? Was reading some quality issues on that model back from 2010-11. Would hope they've since been improved? Do you need to put them on a timer? Or is there a model with one integrated?

    Should I ask for a specific Pentair LED model light unit?
    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Hi Miles,

    Welcome to the forum. We're in the same town and we just finished our pool build (save a few punch list items). It sounds like you're going with the same builder I am based on the equipment list. We were very happy with the build. PM me if you want to discuss specifics. We put in the Pentair VS-2 pump and am happy with it so far. We have an 18" swim deck that our two kids ages 3 and 7 and they love. The rest of the pool is 3.5' down to 8.5' deep end. No diving board, but am looking at putting in a jumping rock later.
    22000 gallon IG Plaster, Pentair CC-150 cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST pump, Pentair Rebel Suction side cleaner, city water, 2016 build

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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Did you end up going with salt water? EasyTouch or IntelliTouch automation?
    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New inground pool - NW Arkansas (input please)

    Miles,

    I'd go with ScreenLogic2 in place of (or in addition to) the Pentair Easy Touch Wireless Controller for 4 circuit systems 520546..

    ScreenLogic will allow you to control your pool via a PC, tablet, or cell phone. It costs less than the 52046 and you can have several "controllers" for the less money.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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