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Thread: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

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    Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Thinking of converting to salt and am trying to figure which size to get. I want Hayward because all other equipment is Hayward. My pool is roughly 10k gallons, not sure to get the 25k or the 40k gallon kit
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Yes. The total cost of ownership is lower when you go big. See here -

    Economics of Saltwater Chlorine Generators

    - - - Updated - - -

    Money quote -

    So it should be very clear from the above table that to get significant savings one really has to use the larger cell sizes of the IC60 (or at least the IC40) for Pentair Intellichlor and the T-CELL-15 (not LL) for the Hayward AquaRite. This assumes that the cells actually last as long as indicated based on usage and that they do not degrade at all based on time alone. [EDIT] Note that the larger cells will output higher FC out of the returns (see this post) so for lower pump flow rates and/or smaller pools that could be too high an FC. [END-EDIT]
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Do you have automation?

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Yes. The total cost of ownership is lower when you go big. See here -

    Economics of Saltwater Chlorine Generators

    - - - Updated - - -

    Money quote -
    I read that but my concern was if the lowest setting on the T-15 produced too much for my pool.


    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Do you have automation?
    No automation, just the auto switch for solar
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    I would suggest getting the AquaPlus with the T-15 cell. You can control the pump, salt and other things.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    The Hayward system let's you control in increments of 1%. That would be more than enough of a fine scale.

    Also with an SWG pool, you typically need to run your pump longer to generate the necessary amount of FC. In a pool with an undersized SWG that can mean 12+ hours or more of run time. So using a larger cell will allow you to keep your pump run times down to a more cost effective level.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Bigcarbs, we have a t-15 and our pool is about 6K. No problem here just adjust the settings and find the sweet spot.
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Studies show running a pool pump for 3-4 hrs is about all that is needed. For us with a SWG we run longer depending on FC demand and SWG size. Most pools loose around 2ppm of FC a day. A T-15 cell @ 100% makes 1.4lbs of FC a day so it takes 2.9hrs to make 2ppm of FC. A T-9 cell @ 100% makes .7lbs a day so it would take 5.8hrs to make 2ppm of FC for your pool. So get the T-15. If you need to run your pump longer you can decrease the cell generation percentage.
    13k Pebbletec Pool/Spa, Hayward Ecostar, SGS Breeze 540 SWG, Pentair C&C 420 cartridge, Pentair MasterTemp Heater, Caretaker system, TF-100 & Taylor K1766 test kits

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Since you have a lot going on, automation can really help. It makes sure that the vsp and salt system work together. You can automate other things as well (lights, valves, solar etc.). Consider everything you want to control and look into the aquaplus and prologic options to see what will do what you want.

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    I would suggest getting the AquaPlus with the T-15 cell. You can control the pump, salt and other things.
    I thought about that but I don't have a lot of other things so was kind of going against it
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Quote Originally Posted by kabutotx View Post
    Studies show running a pool pump for 3-4 hrs is about all that is needed. For us with a SWG we run longer depending on FC demand and SWG size. Most pools loose around 2ppm of FC a day. A T-15 cell @ 100% makes 1.4lbs of FC a day so it takes 2.9hrs to make 2ppm of FC. A T-9 cell @ 100% makes .7lbs a day so it would take 5.8hrs to make 2ppm of FC for your pool. So get the T-15. If you need to run your pump longer you can decrease the cell generation percentage.
    Mine seems to loose a bit more than that so I guess I'll go with the T-15
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    With a single speed pump, power to the pump and swg both come from the same switch. That way, the swg can't operate without the pump on. However, a variable speed pump has power all the time and is controlled by the onboard controller. The swg is also powered all the time. When the pump controller turns off the pump, the swg "should" turn off due to no flow. This works most of the time. However, the swg installation instructions warn that the power supply should be turned off when the pump turns off. This creates two safety interlocks to prevent the swg from running with no flow. If the swg runs with no flow, there could be a buildup of chlorine and hydrogen gas that could explode.

    Most likely you will be fine with only one safety interlock.

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    So what I'm looking at for the automation is Hayward Goldline PL-PLUS ProLogic 40,000-Gallon Electronic Pool Chlorinator. With this I essentially run power to that box and that will control everything from there? I will be able to remove the current timer/power box as well as the pentair solar controller box? Are the solar temp sensors generic to where I can plug them right into this Hayward unit from the pentair?

    From what I gather I can get more control of the color on my Hayward LED light using this as well as turning on the power for my landscape lighting. I think this may be the answer. Also I'm pretty sure I read about ability to change pump speed with solar on vs off
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    I simply have my solar controller connected to the VS pump (both are Pentair) then a simple intermatic timer turns power to my SWG (Hayward) on and off. The pump's onboard timer/controller controls pump speeds and programs. The SWG timer is set to power the SWG during a time that I know the pump will be running. Any time heat is called for and available at the solar panels, the controller opens the valve and ramps up the pump speed. It all works fine with no automation system.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
    I simply have my solar controller connected to the VS pump (both are Pentair) then a simple intermatic timer turns power to my SWG (Hayward) on and off. The pump's onboard timer/controller controls pump speeds and programs. The SWG timer is set to power the SWG during a time that I know the pump will be running. Any time heat is called for and available at the solar panels, the controller opens the valve and ramps up the pump speed. It all works fine with no automation system.
    That sounds like an easier setup tbh. My solar controller is older unit and doesn't change pump speed so I currently just run it at 65% which is enough to get the water through the collectors. My current power box has an unused timer in there so I could use that to power a basic SWG.
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    To work together the pump and solar controller need to communicate. That generally means the same brand. I don't know what's available in Hayward, but my Pentair SolarTouch control cost about $125, was a breeze to install and does everything I need. Allows me to run my SWG at 1400 rpm and when solar comes on it ramps speed to 2400. You can setup any speeds you need and only use enough to effectively handle each task. I have speeds set for AM cleaning, SWG chlorination, extra slow filtration and the solar controller is set for a seperate speed selected to support the heating.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
    To work together the pump and solar controller need to communicate. That generally means the same brand. I don't know what's available in Hayward, but my Pentair SolarTouch control cost about $125, was a breeze to install and does everything I need. Allows me to run my SWG at 1400 rpm and when solar comes on it ramps speed to 2400. You can setup any speeds you need and only use enough to effectively handle each task. I have speeds set for AM cleaning, SWG chlorination, extra slow filtration and the solar controller is set for a seperate speed selected to support the heating.
    I didn't see anything like that from Hayward but my pentair just has the temp knob, no communication with pump. I just run it when the sun is out and it's been working good.
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    The ProLogic should be able to do everything you need, including solar. Check with Hayward about specifics.

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    The ProLogic should be able to do everything you need, including solar. Check with Hayward about specifics.
    It looks like it will do all that I'm asking myself now if I really need all that or keep everything separate and manual. My equipment is pretty close to the pool so it's really no trouble to go and change settings or valves.
    10k Gal, IG Gunite, 10' X 28' X 5.5', Quartz, Hayward Ecostar VS 2HP, Hayward 325 sq ft, 2" plumbing, 2 24" sheer decent, 2 bubblers in tanning ledge, Hayward LED, Build Date Dec. 2015. auto pool cleaner suction side. Suntrek Solar panels, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Should I really get oversized cell? v. Hayward

    Ok. The cost should not be a big difference, but you need to do what you feel is best.

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