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Thread: Greetings from new member / General question

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    Greetings from new member / General question

    Hello all!

    This is my first season owning a pool, and I have fallen victim to pool store shenanigans over the past couple of months. I'm happy I found this forum, and am excited to learn how to effectively care for my pool!

    Now a general question.. I have ordered a Taylor K-2006 kit from Amazon, but it won't be here until Friday. I work long hours and will be unable to do anything to the pool between 6:40AM and 10:30PM on Friday. I also work the weekend, but I will get home around 7:20PM on Saturday and Sunday. I have used a PoolTime ClearPoolExpert test strip to approximate some values posted below:

    TH ~250
    TC ~3-3.5
    FC ~3-3.5
    pH ~ 6.9 - 7.2
    TA ~ 120
    CYA ~50-100

    I'm skeptical of the CYA reading.. I suspect it is high because I have been using stabilized chlorine powder and trichlor tabs in the skimmer (with pump running 24/7) for a few days. Additionally, recent water tests at the pool store have had it as high as 160. I have done a 1/2 drain and refill since then though. I believe I'm also having problems with Mustard Algae.

    My question is this: What should I do until my new test kit gets here? I don't know if I should stop using the tablets (with the water flowing over them I go through at least 2 tabs per day), if I should just aggressively add some bleach each day until Saturday evening when I can test it and maybe perform a SLAM on Sunday evening when I get home?

    Any help is greatly appreciated. Here is a picture of what I believe is Mustard Algae.. in which case I have a feeling I'm going to have to add a ton of bleach to maintain a mustard kill FC level..
    algaepic.jpg
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    While waiting for your test kit, simply add one large jug (121oz) of bleach each day. Plain old laundry bleach, no scented, splashless, etc 'special' stuff, just good old fashioned bleach. No more tablets or other form of solid chlorine (granular also). If you have any pucks in there, get them out.

    121oz of 8.25% bleach will add 4ppm FC to your 20K gallon pool.

    In the mean time, have a read through Pool School, especially The ABC's Of Pool Water Chemistry, Basic Pool Care Schedule, How to Chlorinate your pool, & How to SLAM.

    While mustard algae is very rare, the 'Mustard Shock" level is only held for 24 hours, and not until you complete a successful SLAM.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...-mustard-algae

    Remember, proper FC levels are a % of your CYA level, hence the urgency to get an accurate CYA level.

    More here:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock

    Nice to have you with us.
    Last edited by domct203; 08-31-2016 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Additional info
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Also - avoid the temptation to go to the pool store. Their analysis is seldom correct, and their advice even less so. Many people end up buying hundreds of dollars worth of chemicals (clarifier, algae-gone, copper base this or that) that end up in the end worsening what is actually a very simple issue. The weekend will be here soon enough, and you can get on top of it pretty quickly then. In the meantime, Dom's advice is spot-on.
    16 x 32 IG plaster pool, 23k gallons, built 1992, DE filter, Pentair VS pump, IoThyngs controller, Taylor 2006 test kit, SoCal water restrictions
    Newbies with green pools, see SLAM and Recommended Test Kits. My company: IoThyngs

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Thank you so much for the welcome and replies guys.

    How do you recommend I add the bleach? I've seen differing views on whether or not to add it in front of the return jet in the deep end or adding it directly to the skimmer with the pump running.. Also should I add the entire 121oz at once? After the sun goes down?

    And @domct203 if it doesn't look like mustard algae what do you think it could be? I just don't want it to be black algae...
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Quote Originally Posted by stupidcon View Post
    Thank you so much for the welcome and replies guys.

    How do you recommend I add the bleach? I've seen differing views on whether or not to add it in front of the return jet in the deep end or adding it directly to the skimmer with the pump running.. Also should I add the entire 121oz at once? After the sun goes down?

    And @domct203 if it doesn't look like mustard algae what do you think it could be? I just don't want it to be black algae...
    Black, Green, Mustard....... The answer is always chlorine.

    Is the algae just on the floor? Does it 'poof' away when you try to brush or vacuum it?

    Regardless, chlorine will take care of it. When your test kit gets in we'll get some good test results and SLAM that pool.

    Read that SLAM procedure a few times, and ask any questions you might have.

    We recommend slowly pouring the bleach in front of a running return in the deep end, letting the jet current draw and disperse the chlorine into the water. Don't add it to your skimmer, the concentrated FC level that travels through your pump & filter is going to add wear and tear to your system.
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Yes, it goes "poof" and dissipates rather easily if I brush it or vacuum it.

    I'm wanting to eventually lessen how long my pump is running. Do you think if I add the bleach after dusk with pump running, I could turn the pump off in the morning? I know I'd get at least one turnover. I guess I'm wondering if it's better to have it running during the day or overnight.
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Quote Originally Posted by stupidcon View Post
    Yes, it goes "poof" and dissipates rather easily if I brush it or vacuum it.

    I'm wanting to eventually lessen how long my pump is running. Do you think if I add the bleach after dusk with pump running, I could turn the pump off in the morning? I know I'd get at least one turnover. I guess I'm wondering if it's better to have it running during the day or overnight.
    Once the algae is eliminated you can cut your run time down quite a bit.

    Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time

    Right now you should be brushing often to expose that algae to chlorine (algae will develop a chlorine resistant bio-film or skin, that's why it's slimy), and run the filter 24/7, especially during a SLAM.
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Sorry, but here's one more link for you... It's a tutorial on how to use Poolmath, a handy tool for calculating chemical additions:
    Pool School - PoolMath

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Update: I picked up several 121oz containers of bleach from Wally World yesterday, and I added a container in after dusk last night. The levels look great this AM per a test strip, but again I fear my CYA is very elevated so the FC is probably not high enough to meet the correct ratio. Also, I fear I may have added it too quickly (even though I went very slowly.. aimed for 'pencil diameter' stream for the pour at the return jet). I have some blotchy yellow stains that I am unable to brush out. Up until this morning, I've always been able to make the bottom of the pool look fantastic (at least temporarily) with brushing-- any discoloration would just "poof" away as @dom put it haha. Is it possible that the bleach stained my liner this yellowish color? If so, there's probably nothing I can do about it since it's chemical damage correct?

    We are going to get a new liner at the start of next season so I'm not too worried about it, but I want to make sure I have correct technique down so I don't foul up a brand new liner next season!

    Thanks so much guys!

    EDIT: I believe my FC is still not high enough as I have green algae spots in the pool this AM-- but again not too worried just holding down the fort til my test kit gets here tomorrow!
    Last edited by stupidcon; 09-01-2016 at 08:41 AM. Reason: clarification
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    POP = Pool Owner Patience - This is what you need right now

    When you ordered your K-2006, did you order the "C" model? Taylor kits are sized by the letter at the end of the model number. The K-2006 (with no letter) has very small bottles of reagents and you will need to order more of the FAS-DPD powder and reagent now as you will run out during your SLAM if you did not.

    I doubt one addition of bleach would stain your liner. For now as others have said, you are just adding as a holding pattern - wait until you get your kit.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    You can order more reagent at TFTestkits.net. more here about test kits, Pool School - Test Kits Compared
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Thanks for the replies. I ordered the smaller size K-2006. In addition to ordering R-0870 DPD Powder (for TF-100 and K-2006), do I also need to order both TFTestkits.net AND TFTestkits.net or just one of those?
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    I would get this, XL option TFTestkits.net
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    I would get this, XL option TFTestkits.net
    I would also point out that even though the advertisement says the large bottle won't fit into the K-2006 kit, I got mine to fit by laying it down between the bottles in the middle of the box. Definitely worth getting the large bottle.
    16 x 32 IG plaster pool, 23k gallons, built 1992, DE filter, Pentair VS pump, IoThyngs controller, Taylor 2006 test kit, SoCal water restrictions
    Newbies with green pools, see SLAM and Recommended Test Kits. My company: IoThyngs

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Good evening all!

    I got home really late last night and didn't do much else other than add a 121oz container of bleach to the pool.. I did read through the booklet that came with my Taylor K-2006 test kit-- felt like I was back in my undergrad chemistry classes haha.

    Anyways, I just tested my CYA and as I suspected it's really high. Had to use a 1:2 dilution to determine that it is somewhere between 111 and 117ppm. Since my pool is 20k gallons, assuming the CYA is equally distributed throughout the water I would need to drain roughly 65% of the water to get my CYA close to 40ppm correct?

    I won't be able to do a drain until tomorrow night into *Monday morning. I will waste water out to the skimmer then I have a submersible pump that should get it down to 35% volume by 11AM Monday morning then I will be able to top back off going into Tuesday.

    Should I still put 121oz of bleach in there tonight, or does it even matter since I'm going to be draining a huge chunk of the water tomorrow evening?

    Thanks so much.
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Targeting 60 ppm would be fine for now. That is a manageable number. I would keep FC above minimum for your cya, FC/CYA Chart, so right around 10.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Thanks for the reply @pooldv! You didn't answer any of my questions though.. ;P In the absence of any sort of sound recommendation.. I have decided it best to abort bleach addition for today considering I will be draining close to 2/3rd's of the pool's volume tomorrow. I don't plan on applying any treatment until my pH, total alk, and CYA levels are good. There's no sense in me dumping bleach into my pool when it's just going to be handcuffed by my ridiculously high CYA level.

    I'm not sure where you're getting 60ppm from @pooldv. I want to target 40ppm CYA because I honestly am sick of spending money on chlorine.
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    Quote Originally Posted by stupidcon View Post
    Thanks for the reply @pooldv! You didn't answer any of my questions though.. ;P In the absence of any sort of sound recommendation.. I have decided it best to abort bleach addition for today considering I will be draining close to 2/3rd's of the pool's volume tomorrow. I don't plan on applying any treatment until my pH, total alk, and CYA levels are good. There's no sense in me dumping bleach into my pool when it's just going to be handcuffed by my ridiculously high CYA level.

    I'm not sure where you're getting 60ppm from @pooldv. I want to target 40ppm CYA because I honestly am sick of spending money on chlorine.
    The only reason to keep adding bleach at this point is to make sure the pool does not degrade from where it is into a total swamp. A few dollars in chlorine now may save 10 times that later as you may need to eradicate a worse algae bloom if you don't keep it in check while you deal with the CYA.

    Your game plan should be to replace the water to get the CYA where you want it, adjust pH and start the SLAM. Do not worry about your TA. It is generally the very last parameter we ever worry about.

    He got the 60 from past experience here. It is about the highest CYA you can reasonably attack the algae from. Many who show up are reticent to continue draining to get all the way down to 40, so I commend you for taking the bull by the horns and gettin it done. Remember, during the SLAM you CYA will drop even further as your need to backwash the sand filter will cause a lot of water loss also.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    You asked if you should add bleach, I said that I would keep FC at minimum for your cya. So, that is a yes if you are below minimum and a no if you are above minimum. I can't agree or disagree with adding 121oz of bleach if I don't know what your current FC level is.

    You will use more chlorine per day with lower CYA, not less. Especially if your pool receives lots of sun. That is why we recommend higher CYA in southern climates and lower CYA in northern climates. Hypothetically, in your pool with 40 ppm CYA you would use 4 ppm FC per day on an average day. If you raised CYA to 60 ppm you would use 3 ppm FC per day. The overall FC number needs to be kept higher but the daily consumption/addition will be less with higher CYA.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Greetings from new member / General question

    I'm in the middle of SLAM'ing. I was ultimately estimating on drain as my pool is sort of uneven, but my CYA has ended up somewhere between 42 and 44. My pH was 7.7 so I added just a tad over a quart of muriatic acid and that took it to between 7.4 and 7.5. I've been doing my best to maintain FC of 18-20 but it's been tough between not being able to test and add frequently due to long work days.

    I'm off the next 3 days so I'm being really aggressive with it. Brought it up to speed last night before bed, and it dropped down to 12ppm by 9:15AM. After bringing it up to speed again I just tested it at 11AM and it was sitting right at 19.5 FC. I just vacuumed the pool and I plan to test again maybe around 3PM?

    My questions are this: Is it safe to leave my vacuum and hose in the water with FC that high, or will they get damaged? I assume since the liner can take it, the vaccum and hose should be able to as well but I wanted to ask experts. Also, is my plan to test around 3PM reasonable or should I test sooner? Thanks.

    EDIT: Just thought of another question: As long as I'm keeping an eye on my CH, is it OK to be using some calhypo I got from the pool store? I'm trying to use it up so I can forget about the pool store days :*(. I've added probably close to 80oz of the stuff and my CH has only gone from 140ppm to 162ppm. I figure I'm killing 2 birds with one stone bringing that up a bit towards goal.
    Pool Size: 20,000 gallons AG w/ vinyl liner
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve Model no. SP0714T1 sand filter
    Pentair Optiflo High Performance 1.5 HP pump
    Installed ~2012
    Taylor K-2006 test kit w/ No water restrictions

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