new pool; new owner; but probably old questions !

[WiseOldElf]

hi there. be kind please, i'm new here. i have read pages and pages of posts and advice here, but that doesn't stop me having more questions !

i've a relatively new pool that i've struggled to get 'stable' and like many here, have spent a lot of time and money at pool shops getting conflicting results, conflicting advice and expensive chemicals. i'd come to this website initially to identify the 'best' test kit available in australia, but saw from the body of knowledge here that there was much to be learned as well - thank you, sincerely.

having spent much time reading the advice here about optimal levels of various aspects of the pool water chemistry, i came home tonight and revisited the manufacturer's recommendations. in short, they are (and i use *their* words):

1. ph - we strictly recommend a ph level of between 7.2 and 7.4
2. total alkalinity - you must maintain the total alkalinity between 80 to 100 ppm
3. cyanuric acid should be at 30 to 50 ppm
4. free chlorine levels should be between 1 to 2 ppm
5. chlorine levels should not exceed 5 ppm

now, unless i've got it all wrong, the general water chemistry levels that appear to be recommended on this site are:

Salt200-400 ppm ABOVE recommended optimum level
CYA70-80
FC 4-6ppm
TA60-80
PH7.5-7.8
CH220-320 for fibreglass
Borates30-50 ppm (optional)

so, if i've misread the information here, i apologise and i am happy to be corrected. otherwise, why are the recommendations SO different and how do i reconcile them with what appear to be very clear directions from the manufacturer ?

sorry, but i'm totally confused now !

thanks for any help you may be able to offer.

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome to TFP! Long story short ... many pool industry recommendations are based off of old, antiquated methodology. The TFP recommended levels are based off of years of studies and factual data related to each type of pool surface and how those levels effect auxiliary equipment (i.e. heaters, SWG, plumbing, etc). You won't find that kind of effort elsewhere. TFP offers advise designed to not only help keep your water crystal clear, but also protect your investment to avoid staining, calcium scale, etc. So if you stick to the TFP levels, use only the chemicals we advocate, and confirm everything by using one of the recommended test kits (TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C) we think you'll be pleased.

Great to have you with us Elf, and let us know if you have anymore questions.

 

[Isaac-1]

To follow up a bit on that, the salt recommendation is in the process of being revised (probably to add the words in areas with high amounts of rainfall). And as Texas Splash says much of the pool industry keeps spouting off the same water parameters they did 40-50 years ago, which seem to be mostly based on post World War 2 studies done in the 1950's. They take no account of the effects of CYA on chlorine which has been known in scientific papers since the 1970's and no account of the effects of SWG's which became popular in the last 20 years on pH drift, and hence our lower TA suggestion for SWG pools. Even their requirement for CH range in fiberglass is of questionable origin when it comes to common CH exposure of other fiberglass products (boats, etc.).

Ike

 

[WiseOldElf]

thank you both for the prompt reply - my concern was that in their documentation, they explicitly state that (for example), 'in order to maintain your lifetime structural warranty on your xxxx composite armour swimming pool, you MUST maintain the ph level between 7.2 and 7.4'. similar statements of doom apply to TA levels outside of 80-120 ppm. additionally, it warns of damage to the pool's surface where FC levels are outside of 1 to 2 ppm, chlorine levels are above 5 ppm and CYA isn't 30-50 ppm. you'll understand, i'm sure, that as a newbie (who's spent a shed load of money on a new pool) these sorts of statements do strike some fear when i think of using different pool chemistry values !

 

[Isaac-1]

It is understandable, unfortunately following their numbers, particularly with an SWG pool is a recipe for constant frustration, acid additions, and likely algae blooms clouding the water and making it turn green.

 

[Caco]

G'day Elf
On the test kit I just got a new one from an Aussie supplier Clear Choice Labs Simple. Accurate. Fast. I cant comment on the actual test as I haven't opened my pool yet but they shipped within 24 hours and it was well packaged and comes with all the standards too

I understand that our levels may seem high, especially considering the pools stores/manufacturers often say 1-3ppm FC max, but the effects are really moderated by the levels of CYA to ensure they are safe.

6 ppm FC with 50 ppm CYA has the same active chlorine level as only 0.1 ppm FC with no CYA. Most of the chlorine is bound to CYA and is effectively inactive, doesn't react significantly, doesn't outgas, has no skin absorption, etc. It just sits in reserve waiting for something to eat or burnt off by the sun

I thought this post from Joyfulnoise might help set your mind at ease. Note I have edited for brevity

When CYA is present, roughly 95% of the FC you measure is chlorine that is chemically bound to the CYA molecule. The remaining 5% splits up into hypochlorous acid (the stuff that is good at killing algae and oxidizing bather waste) and hypochlorite ion (also a sanitizer and oxidizer, just less effective). The chlorine that is bound to the CYA gets released slowly as the HOCl/OCl- gets used up. When the chlorine is bound to the CYA molecule, it can be thought of as being "inert" or harmless. The FC you measure with your kit is the sum of all active chlorine species in the water - [HOCl] + [OCl-] + [HCy-Cl]. The actual concentrations of HOCl and OCl- in your pool water is at the parts-per-billion level.

If you ask (or do a search) all of the science behind the recommendations is probably available somewhere on the site. I looked at a few and my brain started to hurt, but was assured in my mind that it was reputable science

Personally I think this is the best method I have found for keeping my pool clean, sanitary and quite frankly boring and cheap to maintain. Last year I added bunnings liquid chlorine every day, adjusted ph with acid every 1-2 weeks and a bit of baking soda once early Feb. Apart from that it was CYA, salt and Borax at start up. Best pool water I ever had

 

[WiseOldElf]

those follow-up comments are helpful and reassuring; thanks again. i'll invest in a test kit (the taylor k-2006c seems to be the australian option of choice) and put my faith in the wisdom of the helpful crew on this site. if nothing else, the folk on this site seem approachable and eager to help, which is considerably more than i can say about the pool manufacturer...