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Thread: Foam 2x Weeks

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    jdomke1's Avatar
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    Foam 2x Weeks

    I've had an issue with foam in my pool/spa for over two weeks now. It started right around the time I treated my pool for black algae. I accidentally put twice as much in as I was supposed to. I added clarifier afterwards as it suggested. The issue is that I run my pool water into my spa for a waterfall effect plus to keep it circulating. The spa when sitting it totally clear to the bottom. Once is start up the pump it gets cloudy and then foam is produced by the waterfall effect when it hits the pool. Turn on the spa and blower and be prepared for endless bubbles and foam. If I just run into the pool and bypass the spa I obviously get no foam because there is no splashing. It's getting better since this started two weeks ago but honestly I'm sick and tired of dealing with and seeing it. The chem tests all come back as normal, at least the same as before this started. Any suggestions?
    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    What did you put in the pool? Chemical names are helpful. What are your test results?
    16k AG Vinyl Sand Filter

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Pretty sure it was Clorox Pool and Spa Algaecide Xtra Blue, 40 oz.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    We only really trust results from one of these testkits: Pool School - Test Kits Compared

    May I suggest that you purchase one of them? Then we can really help!

    - - - Updated - - -

    According to the msds sheet, that product has copper in it. Please don't use any more of it. It can cause staining and other problems like tingeing blonde hair green. http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenew...4_55_55_PM.pdf

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    It has some of the best ratings for black algae removal and it worked. How do I deal with the foam?


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Well I am a newbie and I am just guessing, but chlorine is a great oxidiser and cheap, so I would suggest raising to slam level for a couple of days to see if it starts to break down the foam

    I would wait for feedback from someone more knowledgeable on chems than me. I am sure someone here would know the answer
    6000 gal, AG vinyl, Intex ultra frame 16ft, 1200 Gallon Sand Filter, DIY Solar, Clear Choice Labs Testing Kit

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    FC is up near 8 so I think that's good. Pool is clear as day with only this foaming sudsy issue. I'm thinking of cleaning out the filter but that is a royal pita on these system 3 element types. Tons of clamps and heavy top followed by 10,000 gallons wasted washing down the the elements. Done it three times already this season and getting tired of doing it. Everything I read said once or twice a year, not 3-4 times in 8 months.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Caco got it right. Bump FC to SLaM level and hold it there until the foam clears.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Umm, the lowest slam level is 10, and thats for a CYA of 20, see the chart here CYA chart

    Although you have a SWG so you CYA should be approx 70, did you mean you have a FC of 28 which is the slam level for CYA 70?
    6000 gal, AG vinyl, Intex ultra frame 16ft, 1200 Gallon Sand Filter, DIY Solar, Clear Choice Labs Testing Kit

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    My CYA has been out of whack ever since I bought this house. I live in CA so I can't just dump and refill. The previous owner used pucks and the level was something like 300 when I bought the house this past Jan. I changed over to SWG and stopped using pucks and only liquid chlorine after discovering the shock packets had stabilizer too. I've gotten it down to about 100 now. I'll do a check later today and see what I'm at now. I was having a hard time dealing with phosphates because I live near farm fields that blow their fertilizer into my pool. As a result, algae was killing me and the chlorine was just being wasted and generally near zero levels when I checked. Now with use of weekly phosfree and liquid chlorine shocking I at least get normal FC levels according to the freepoolcalculator site.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Right now, you're nowhere near using TFP methods. Without using those methods, it's going to be extremely hard to help you.

    You're dumping all kinds of completely unneeded things into your pool, and then wondering why it's not clean and clear. We can help you to get it sparkling to perfection, but in order for us to do that, you're going to have to stop throwing phosfree and algaecides and other unneeded garbage into your pool. TFP only works when you have a clear understanding of what actually needs to go into your pool to correctly address the issue you're having. Black algae can be addressed by simply adding enough bleach to reach SLAM level for your CYA reading, and holding it there until the pool is clear and passes an overnight chlorine loss test. That's it. No need to throw a bunch of expensive chemicals in there (especially not ones that contain copper), and no need to address your "phosphate problem" (there is no such thing).

    If you're willing to head up to Pool School and read the ABCs of pool chemistry:
    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

    Then how to defeat algae:
    Pool School - Defeating Algae

    And finally, get an approved testing kit and provide us with solid, self-tested numbers:
    TFTestkits.net (I'd recommend a TF-100 - you're going to need the extra chemicals with your high CYA and your need to SLAM)

    We'll help you get your pool looking freaking killer. But until you do that, it's impossible for us to help you because you're not willing to follow our advice.

    This is a TFP pool - I've added nothing to it since I took it over from the former owner in April but liquid chlorine, some muriatic acid, and some stabilizer. I can see the head pattern on the drain screws which are 5ft under water:
    Click here for high res: http://wiredstar.com/images/TFPClear.jpg

    Here's my "little" enjoying the water - you can see the sparkle and light reflection you get from extremely clear water:

    Not a speck of algae, not a single day of cloudy water (pardon the little bit of scale on the tile back there, the house was a rental and the entire upper half of the tile was CAKED with calcium - it's been a long road getting it all off), the entire summer - with a pool that was running nearly 90 degrees temperature the entire time.

    It's very easy to do - especially with a salt system (I'm doing this manually with liquid chlorine). But you have to stop padding the pool store's pockets, and choose to go the full TFP route.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
    Kreepy Krauly Cruiser, TF-100 with SpeedStir. :D

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by jdomke1 View Post
    My CYA has been out of whack ever since I bought this house. I live in CA so I can't just dump and refill. The previous owner used pucks and the level was something like 300 when I bought the house this past Jan. I changed over to SWG and stopped using pucks and only liquid chlorine after discovering the shock packets had stabilizer too. I've gotten it down to about 100 now. I'll do a check later today and see what I'm at now. I was having a hard time dealing with phosphates because I live near farm fields that blow their fertilizer into my pool. As a result, algae was killing me and the chlorine was just being wasted and generally near zero levels when I checked. Now with use of weekly phosfree and liquid chlorine shocking I at least get normal FC levels according to the freepoolcalculator site.


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    You should be using Pool Math as it is updated constantly.

    If you CYA is indeed 100ppm, your minimum FC level is 8ppm, your target FC is 13ppm, and shock level for a SLAM is 40ppm.

    You are getting algae because your sanitizer (chlorine) is too low for your CYA level.

    You should do an extended CYA test to get a better CYA value, the instructions are in pool school. FC minimum is 7.5% of CYA, Target is 13% of CYA, Shock is 40% of CYA.

    If your actual CYA level is 150ppm, your minimum will become 11ppm, target at 20ppm, shock at 60ppm.
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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    When your CYA level is 300 there is no amount of chlorine you can add to get to the correct level. It's a battle I've been fighting since I bought the house. I'm finally down to somewhat reasonable levels so adding liquid chlorine works. I'm doing what is suggested on this site but I'm not a chemical engineer either. I use the pool calculator as recommended here and add what it tells me to. The problem now is not my levels but the foam caused by algaecide or something else. If you think it's chemical imbalance then tell me which one causes foam.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post
    You should be using Pool Math as it is updated constantly.

    If you CYA is indeed 100ppm, your minimum FC level is 8ppm, your target FC is 13ppm, and shock level for a SLAM is 40ppm.

    You are getting algae because your sanitizer (chlorine) is too low for your CYA level.

    You should do an extended CYA test to get a better CYA value, the instructions are in pool school. FC minimum is 7.5% of CYA, Target is 13% of CYA, Shock is 40% of CYA.

    If your actual CYA level is 150ppm, your minimum will become 11ppm, target at 20ppm, shock at 60ppm.
    I've been adding water and dumping when I can which is why it's down from 300 just four months ago.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    That algaecide might contain Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride although it doesn't say it on that msds sheet but the foaming is an indicator of that chemical. As mentioned the product contains copper which may stain your pool and look alot worse than any foaming. The foaming will go away eventually but if you want it gone faster you will have to raise the FC to shock level. I wouldn't use that stuff any more.
    16k AG Vinyl Sand Filter

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by smackdab View Post
    That algaecide might contain Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride although it doesn't say it on that msds sheet but the foaming is an indicator of that chemical. As mentioned the product contains copper which may stain your pool and look alot worse than any foaming. The foaming will go away eventually but if you want it gone faster you will have to raise the FC to shock level. I wouldn't use that stuff any more.
    Trust me. Never again.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    I just wanted to say well done on getting the CYA down from 300 while battling algae. Must've been a struggle to get through it.
    I think now you are getting down towards more normal levels you will be able to forget a lot of those algaecide and other products and just use your swg and bleach to handle anything that crops up. I would assume you may want to get to about 80ppm CYA for maintenance to start and see how things go
    Over time we can also help clear out the copper if that becomes an issue for you
    Have you raised the FC level and is it having any effect? I am hoping a couple of days will have it sorted
    6000 gal, AG vinyl, Intex ultra frame 16ft, 1200 Gallon Sand Filter, DIY Solar, Clear Choice Labs Testing Kit

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    Right now I'm out of liquid bleach because of all the black algae and SWG not working because the flow wasn't fast enough. I have to check every day in diagnostics to make sure it shows ok. I'll try to clean the filter today and hopefully that helps with the foam. I'm trying for 80 on CYA. I've gotten it down to about 120 now. I have tons of shock packs but they contain stabilizer so I quit using them. Need to run to Walmart and pickup some pool bleach.


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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    Re: Foam 2x Weeks

    How are you testing?
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Foam 2x Weeks

    I shudder to think of all the responses from the Taylor sales team that troll these boards seeking out evil offenders such as myself. I use both a 5 test liquid tester and also the AquaCheck 7-in-1 test strips. I primarily use the strips for the cya testing. I've also used the Insta-Link strips but they are junk. I can scan those strips three times and get totally different results each time. The Aqua-Check came well recommended on Amazon and the book it came with is very enlightening. I've looked at the very pricey Taylor test kit this forum pushes but honestly I'm not into being a scientist just to figure my levels. I'll leave that to my daughter who is studying to be an Astrophysicist. Let the flames begin...


    28,000 in ground gunite pool and spa
    Pentair EasyTouch 8
    Pentair Salt Water Generator
    System 3 Filter
    Max Therm Heater 400,000 btu

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