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Thread: After adding yellowout

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    After adding yellowout

    Hello all. First time poster and newer pool guy here. I recently had a well balanced pool but I had to add yellow out for the start of what I was told mustard algae (small spots of sand on the floor). I have a salt water pool and I added the yellow out and then 5 minutes later, as directed, I added 2 pounds of shock for my 20k gallon vinyl pool. I went to the pool store to get new readings today and to see what the yellow out did. Well I went from 1.0 TC and 1.0 FC to 6.6 TC and .01 FC. Yes I know I need to get my own test kit and I will. However I am being told I may be in chlorine lock. Am I over worrying here or is there something I should do? All of my other levels are in line:

    pH 7.5
    TA 170
    Harness 300
    Stabilizer 35
    Salt 3260

    The automated test they used (dip a strip and scan into a computer) says to add 16 pounds of shock. The lady at the counter told me to wait and see what happens over the next few days and to test again in a week. Any suggestions? Thanks for any insight.

    Also my pool currently is crystal clear and its never been clearer.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Welcome to TFP!

    Chlorine lock is a term that has no real meaning. You need to know your CYA level and then SLAM the pool according to this process SLAM
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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Sorry I added it to my thread. It's 35

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Do you still have the Yellow Out container? Whats the main chemical?

    Some of these mustard algae treatments are nothing more than EDTA and, when added in conjunction with high levels of shock powder (dichlor), it forms lots of monochloramine which shows up as CC's in your water results. Monochloramine is one of the chemicals that gives water that nasty "chlorine pool smell" but it is also effective at killing algae. So now you need to not only kill the algae but also burn off all the CCs created. A SLAM following our standard mustard algae protocol works a lot better.

    "Chlorine lock" does not exist...it's term the pool industry uses because (A) they don't understand the science behind CYA (stabilizer) and FC and (B) they use it as a diagnosis for when they run out of excuses as to why all of their advice sucks and doesn't work. They'll usually couple it with "your TDS is off the charts" and then tell you to drain half your pool water since "it has gone bad"...it's all rubbish.

    Read here to get a little more insider info - Certified Pool Operator (CPO) training -- What is not taught
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    The main ingredient is disodium salt of ethylendiaminetetraacertic acid dihydrate, diammonium sulfate (100%)

    - - - Updated - - -

    That chart doesn't show what to add for my SWG pool with a CYA of 35

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman229 View Post
    The main ingredient is disodium salt of ethylendiaminetetraacertic acid dihydrate, diammonium sulfate (100%)

    - - - Updated - - -

    That chart doesn't show what to add for my SWG pool with a CYA of 35
    Yup. EDTA + FC = CC....lots of CCs.

    SWG pools should never be run with a CYA less than 60ppm and we recommend at least 70ppm CYA. This ensures that the FC it does create is well protected from UV loss and that directly translates into less SWG run time which saves on cell life. Your daily minimum FC should never drop below 5% of CYA, so for a 70ppm CYA that's 3.5ppm FC. And that's a "floor" value, you never cross the floor value. Most SWG owners here will target 70ppm CYA and try to shoot for starting the day off with around 6-7ppm FC. A normal, clean swimming pool should not lose more than 2-4ppm per day with full sun and high heat.

    Since your CYA is low right now (don't use half decade values, if it measures 35ppm call it 40ppm), you can SLAM much more easily where your shock level of chlorine is 40% of CYA or 16ppm FC for 40ppm CYA. You want to follow the Mustard Algae SLAM procedure in Pool School here - Pool School - Mustard Algae
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Thank you for your reply. I'm trying to reprogram everything Ive been told already. I'm a little confused with the SLAM. How do I tell how much chlorine I need to add? I was told to add 16 pounds of shock.

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    This chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart tell you how much you need.
    This page http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html tells you how much chlorine to add to get there.

    Remember, SLAM isn't a one time addition of chlorine, the M is Maintain. It would be good to read the article JohnT posted a couple of times.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
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    Re: After adding yellowout

    I've been reading everything I can get my eyes on friend. Just a lot to consume and a new world when it comes to everything I think I've known how to handle. Also the chart doesn't encompass my current reading so I'm trying to figure it out. Hence why I've been asking questions and thankful for the responses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bruce View Post
    This chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart tell you how much you need.
    This page http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html tells you how much chlorine to add to get there.

    Remember, SLAM isn't a one time addition of chlorine, the M is Maintain. It would be good to read the article JohnT posted a couple of times.
    If I have a SWG shouldn't that be my maintain?

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    It all sinks in after a while.

    If you haven't ordered a test kit that would be the first order of business. (see signature) Otherwise you are flying blind.

    Also, where the heck is Brick

    e: You SLAM the pool to get rid of algae. After that your SWG (fill out your signature please ) will help keep your FC where it needs to be.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
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    Re: After adding yellowout

    In central NJ. I updated my signature. How do I determine how much chlorine I should be at when ive been told I really shouldn't have one since I have a salt pool?
    20,000 salt water in ground vinyl pool. Pentair VS motor and 300 pound sand filter. IC 40 Salt Water Generator, two led lights, three deck jets and a Taylor test kit.

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman229 View Post

    If I have a SWG shouldn't that be my maintain?
    SWG's are incapable of creating or maintaining the high FC levels needed during a SLAM. Depending on your SWG model, most produce only 1.5 to 2.0 lbs of chlorine gas per day. That's it. If you calculate that out, the production rate per hour of FC is far too low to ever achieve shock levels of chlorination. I know the industry sells them with the "Super-chlorinate" function and they tell you that the cell will "shock" your water if you use it, but super chlorinate is nothing more than the cell running at 100% output for 24 hours. So the whole "Superchlorinate" option is just marketing BS on the part of SWG equipment makers.

    When you SLAM a pool, you need to use a liquid chlorine source to do it. Liquid chlorine (aka, bleach) is sodium hypochlorite, typically sold as shock and it is 10-12.5% sodium hypochlorite. Solid, powdered or stabilized chlorine chemicals are either trichlor puck, dichlor powder or calcium hypochlorite. None of those should be used in large quantities because they will add too much CYA or CH to your water. So, if you have any powders, return them to the pool store, you don't need them. Oh, and be prepared for the typical pool store BS where they will tell you putting liquid chlorine or bleach in your pool will add to the TDS, destroy your equipment, ruin your pool surfaces, create a black hole that will consume your pool, cause the start of the Apocalypse, etc, etc. When dealing with pool stores, you have to have a thick skin and just not listen to any of their advice.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    I wish I would have never added this yellow out to get me into this predicament. Should have just added the liquid chlorine. I've never added powder chlorine only liquid chlorine. If I'm at 6.6 chlorine with .01 FC what do I need to add to get it to where I should be?

    - - - Updated - - -


    I meant shouldn't the SWG provide enough daily output to maintain. Not to use it for a SLAM

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    SWG's are incapable of creating or maintaining the high FC levels needed during a SLAM. Depending on your SWG model, most produce only 1.5 to 2.0 lbs of chlorine gas per day. That's it. If you calculate that out, the production rate per hour of FC is far too low to ever achieve shock levels of chlorination. I know the industry sells them with the "Super-chlorinate" function and they tell you that the cell will "shock" your water if you use it, but super chlorinate is nothing more than the cell running at 100% output for 24 hours. So the whole "Superchlorinate" option is just marketing BS on the part of SWG equipment makers.

    When you SLAM a pool, you need to use a liquid chlorine source to do it. Liquid chlorine (aka, bleach) is sodium hypochlorite, typically sold as shock and it is 10-12.5% sodium hypochlorite. Solid, powdered or stabilized chlorine chemicals are either trichlor puck, dichlor powder or calcium hypochlorite. None of those should be used in large quantities because they will add too much CYA or CH to your water. So, if you have any powders, return them to the pool store, you don't need them. Oh, and be prepared for the typical pool store BS where they will tell you putting liquid chlorine or bleach in your pool will add to the TDS, destroy your equipment, ruin your pool surfaces, create a black hole that will consume your pool, cause the start of the Apocalypse, etc, etc. When dealing with pool stores, you have to have a thick skin and just not listen to any of their advice.
    20,000 salt water in ground vinyl pool. Pentair VS motor and 300 pound sand filter. IC 40 Salt Water Generator, two led lights, three deck jets and a Taylor test kit.

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman229 View Post
    I wish I would have never added this yellow out to get me into this predicament. Should have just added the liquid chlorine. I've never added powder chlorine only liquid chlorine. If I'm at 6.6 chlorine with .01 FC what do I need to add to get it to where I should be?

    - - - Updated - - -


    I meant shouldn't the SWG provide enough daily output to maintain. Not to use it for a SLAM
    Your CCs will go away with the SLAM. One of the first things shock levels of chlorine will do is oxidize all of the CCs and sunlight plus outgassing will get rid of them. You just need to SLAM your pool.

    As for an SWG maintaining the correct level, well, yes it will assuming it is correctly sized for your pool. You have a 20k gallon pool. What make/model SWG do you have? How often do you run your pumps? What is the % output setting on the SWG? Does the SWG run for the full pump time?
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Pentair IC40. Runs 12 hours day at 70 percent. So if my CYA level is 40. How much do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Your CCs will go away with the SLAM. One of the first things shock levels of chlorine will do is oxidize all of the CCs and sunlight plus outgassing will get rid of them. You just need to SLAM your pool.

    As for an SWG maintaining the correct level, well, yes it will assuming it is correctly sized for your pool. You have a 20k gallon pool. What make/model SWG do you have? How often do you run your pumps? What is the % output setting on the SWG? Does the SWG run for the full pump time?
    - - - Updated - - -

    Pentair IC40. Runs 12 hours day at 70 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Your CCs will go away with the SLAM. One of the first things shock levels of chlorine will do is oxidize all of the CCs and sunlight plus outgassing will get rid of them. You just need to SLAM your pool.

    As for an SWG maintaining the correct level, well, yes it will assuming it is correctly sized for your pool. You have a 20k gallon pool. What make/model SWG do you have? How often do you run your pumps? What is the % output setting on the SWG? Does the SWG run for the full pump time?
    20,000 salt water in ground vinyl pool. Pentair VS motor and 300 pound sand filter. IC 40 Salt Water Generator, two led lights, three deck jets and a Taylor test kit.

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman229 View Post
    Pentair IC40. Runs 12 hours day at 70 percent
    Assuming your cell is clean and running at peak performance (1.4lbs of chlorine gas per day), then your run time and output will generate 7.84oz of chlorine gas which equates to 2.9ppm FC in a 20k gallon pool.

    A clean and clear swimming pool in full sun with our recommended CYA levels would lose about 2-4ppm FC per day. So if you were following the recommendations here then you'd be right on edge of what we'd say is good. Since your CYA is half of what we'd recommend, you were probably losing more FC to sunlight than anything else which means your pool was probably experiencing periods of low chlorine.

    But, the good news is, your cell can likely keep up. You just need to balance your water a little better and probably increase either your pump run times or SWG output a little bit.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    OP, here are the SLAM instructions. This is what you need to do: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain once you've completed that, then move on the mustard algae treatment: Pool School - Mustard Algae Use this page: http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html to figure out how much chlorine you need to add to reach the needed levels. You can use liquid chlorine from the pool store/home depot/walmart etc or plain old household bleach (regular unscented - not the splashless kind) they are the same exact thing just different concentrations. Enter the concentration of what you are using to the calculator and it will tell you how much to add.
    22,500 gallon in ground pool with vinyl liner. DE filter. Taylor K-2006.

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    I will go refer back to Mr. Bruce's comments, 1st order of business is to order a proper test kit. The TF-100 is best bang for buck and if ordered now it might get to you by Saturday. You are relying on a lot of # from pool store which can be very inaccurate. When I started here last year, I was too impatient to wait for kit ( it only took 2 days, I thought it would take more) I adjusted ph up according to pool store reading, when kit came tested everything and my ph very high, had to go buy acid to bring it down, just slowed me down. I spoke to a friend of mine who had experience with CYA going up as high as 200 then a few days later down to 50. That would be next to impossible considering no water exchange. That is how far off the # at a pool store could be. Before starting to add anything get good #, need a proper kit to do this.
    28,000 gals (20 x 40), IG, vinyl, Hayward Sand Filter, old Hayward
    Super pump (not sure of HP secondary to corrosion of label),

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    I have a Taylor test kit on its way and should be here on Tuesday. I have a party on Wednesday of next week and id like to pool to be clear and open so I'm trying to figure out what if anything I need to do to ensure that. The numbers I received today are close to what I had the day before I added yellow out. Just need to get my chlorine in line. I just checked the calculator and it says to go from 0 to 4 FC is 166 oz. Does that sound right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Amateur View Post
    I will go refer back to Mr. Bruce's comments, 1st order of business is to order a proper test kit. The TF-100 is best bang for buck and if ordered now it might get to you by Saturday. You are relying on a lot of # from pool store which can be very inaccurate. When I started here last year, I was too impatient to wait for kit ( it only took 2 days, I thought it would take more) I adjusted ph up according to pool store reading, when kit came tested everything and my ph very high, had to go buy acid to bring it down, just slowed me down. I spoke to a friend of mine who had experience with CYA going up as high as 200 then a few days later down to 50. That would be next to impossible considering no water exchange. That is how far off the # at a pool store could be. Before starting to add anything get good #, need a proper kit to do this.
    20,000 salt water in ground vinyl pool. Pentair VS motor and 300 pound sand filter. IC 40 Salt Water Generator, two led lights, three deck jets and a Taylor test kit.

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    Re: After adding yellowout

    Glad you ordered kit, hope it arrives before Tue., 166 oz to go from 0 - 4 for 20k pool, of 8.25% bleach is high, I got 118 but if the concentration of chlorine is lower it could be. Most buy 8.25% bleach from store, I buy 12.5% at pool store because it is cheaper.
    28,000 gals (20 x 40), IG, vinyl, Hayward Sand Filter, old Hayward
    Super pump (not sure of HP secondary to corrosion of label),

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