Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Where to puchase standards solutions

  1. Back To Top    #1



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Where to puchase standards solutions

    Can anyone tell me where I can purchase standards solutions so I can verify my water testing?

    I use the Lamotte ColorQ 7, which from reading posts, many here have very strong feelings for and against. PLEASE - I do not want this to degrade to why I should or should not use that device. I am an scientist and want to purchase standards solutions and test myself to verify its accuracy and my testing method. I would want to do this regardless of which testing product I owned.

    I would like third party solutions. That is, not a solution that is manufactured by one of the test manufacturers, as this would seem to not really be a blind test.

    Thanks,

    Gary
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    'burbs of Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    6,481

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    TFTestkits.net is the source for those standard solutions
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

  3. Back To Top    #3



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    TFTestkits.net is the source for those standard solutions
    Thanks, but as I said, I would prefer 3rd party and not ones made by those that create kits.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    EVChargeGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    340

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    I'm not a scientist, but if i was looking for Standard solutions that are manufactured by one of the test manufacturers, Google would be a good start?
    IG Tear Drop, Dark Gray Gunite , 27,000 gallons -Age 50+-years, very old Hayward Split Egg Sand Filter with side mount Multi-port- Hayward SP2600VSP Pump- Hayward chlorine feed (not used since finding TFP) - Laars 315K BTU Oil heater- LoopLoc Safety cover- AquaBot RAPIDS 4WD- TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir- 390 Gal Hot Springs Spa Envoy installed May 2017

  5. Back To Top    #5



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by EVChargeGuy View Post
    I'm not a scientist, but if i was looking for Standard solutions that are manufactured by one of the test manufacturers, Google would be a good start?
    Yup, spent an hour looking so far. Hoping to find someone here that has already purchased. Also, want one not made by a test manufacturer.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    456

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryT58 View Post
    I would like third party solutions. That is, not a solution that is manufactured by one of the test manufacturers, as this would seem to not really be a blind test.
    Why do you say that you don't get a blind test with solutions that come from one of the kit manufacturers, like Taylor? What's not blind about it, especially tests like FC where it is pretty unbiased as to whether the solution turns from pink to clear.

    If you are a scientist then maybe you know someone in a lab that can do this testing or you have a relationship with a company that supplies chemicals to science labs. But I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't be using the same solutions anyhow.
    Vinyl 18'x36' in-ground 100,000 L, Jandy Aquapure 1400 SWCG, Jandy Lite2 heater, StaRite System3 filter, Evac tube solar heating panels

  7. Back To Top    #7
    EVChargeGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    340

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryT58 View Post
    Yup, spent an hour looking so far. Hoping to find someone here that has already purchased. Also, want one not made by a test manufacturer.
    Sorry -I mis-typed-
    Via staying away from test manufacturers, I think you will find the you may have to go to multiple sources to get any type of coverage to the various pool water tests. I also think you may have to buy in quantities that will be cost prohibitive.
    IG Tear Drop, Dark Gray Gunite , 27,000 gallons -Age 50+-years, very old Hayward Split Egg Sand Filter with side mount Multi-port- Hayward SP2600VSP Pump- Hayward chlorine feed (not used since finding TFP) - Laars 315K BTU Oil heater- LoopLoc Safety cover- AquaBot RAPIDS 4WD- TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir- 390 Gal Hot Springs Spa Envoy installed May 2017

  8. Back To Top    #8



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by wayner View Post
    Why do you say that you don't get a blind test with solutions that come from one of the kit manufacturers, like Taylor? What's not blind about it, especially tests like FC where it is pretty unbiased as to whether the solution turns from pink to clear.
    When I see a solution manufactured by those that sale the test kit, I wonder how the solution was made and verified. If tested with their own kit then it would be introducing the errors of that kit. I would prefer standards made to a higher level.

    If you are a scientist then maybe you know someone in a lab that can do this testing or you have a relationship with a company that supplies chemicals to science labs. But I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't be using the same solutions anyhow.
    I have BS in Computer Science. I have taken a wide variety of science classes in my degree, but do not claim to be a chemist, nor work in a lab. I understand testing methodology very well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EVChargeGuy View Post
    I think you will find the you may have to go to multiple sources to get any type of coverage to the various pool water tests. I also think you may have to buy in quantities that will be cost prohibitive.
    Yes, that may be. Hoping to hear from those that have gone this route to see if this is really the case, and then I can make a decision based upon that. Thanks.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  9. Back To Top    #9


    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Valley CA
    Posts
    1,073

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    If you are just looking to determine the margin of error for a particular test kit or device I think you may be better served by finding a local lab that can test with a higher degree of accuracy than the home tests that are readily available. The age of the test sample and/or time difference between when each test was preformed would be a factor thus the need for a local lab.

    An interesting experiment but as many on here have said you are testing pool water not making rocket fuel, if you try to control the chemistry too narrowly you will not have a "Trouble Free Pool"
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    You could check Accustandard, Ultra Scientific or o2si. Those are the ones off the top of my head that I remember from my real lab rat days. Those companies I know provide standards but are skewed more toward the organic standards, but they may have chlorine standards as well.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  11. Back To Top    #11

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,084

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Please post back what you find. I cannot recall a request like yours but it would be interesting to many people if you do find something. Good luck!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by atttech-2 View Post
    If you are just looking to determine the margin of error for a particular test kit or device I think you may be better served by finding a local lab that can test with a higher degree of accuracy than the home tests that are readily available. The age of the test sample and/or time difference between when each test was preformed would be a factor thus the need for a local lab.

    An interesting experiment but as many on here have said you are testing pool water not making rocket fuel, if you try to control the chemistry too narrowly you will not have a "Trouble Free Pool"
    Yes, that is an option I can check. Until I read the horror stories here, I would have thought that a pool store with their computerized testing would have been a benchmark.

    Not seeking super accuracy, just want to determine if my testing is +/- what. That way at least I know if I am in a valid range for my goals.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    456

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Why not do your own verification on your own for some of the tests. You should be able to verify several of them. For example calculate how much chlorine you have to put in 1L of distilled water to have FC of 10.0. Then run the test with your test kit. Same with CYA, etc. You could likely also do the same with pH although it appears that the pH of distilled water isn't always 7.
    Vinyl 18'x36' in-ground 100,000 L, Jandy Aquapure 1400 SWCG, Jandy Lite2 heater, StaRite System3 filter, Evac tube solar heating panels

  14. Back To Top    #14



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by wayner View Post
    Why not do your own verification on your own for some of the tests. You should be able to verify several of them. For example calculate how much chlorine you have to put in 1L of distilled water to have FC of 10.0. Then run the test with your test kit. Same with CYA, etc. You could likely also do the same with pH although it appears that the pH of distilled water isn't always 7.
    Yes, I thought of that. But after reading some threads on the forum on how bottled chlorine degrades over time, and this varies based upon storage temperature, I would not have a known %age.

    I have found many parties with ph standards, which as Joel above rightly stated, are focused more to organics. Joel - thanks for the sources, I will check those out.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    In the Industry
    OTPirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Creedmoor, NC
    Posts
    989

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    http://www.coleparmer.com/assets/cat..._CP/GH_977.pdf

    Check out there CL standard. I do not think Cole Palmer sells test kits. Let me know your findings! I am interested.

  16. Back To Top    #16


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,375

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by OTPirate View Post
    http://www.coleparmer.com/assets/cat..._CP/GH_977.pdf

    Check out there CL standard. I do not think Cole Palmer sells test kits. Let me know your findings! I am interested.
    Holy cow, $33 plus shipping for just the chlorine standard?
    http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/Pr...erred_ID=21350

    I don't know what you hope to discover, but it looks like it will not be cheap.
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Hope Mills, NC
    Posts
    556

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Why not just perform an MSA on the ColorQ and on a Taylor k2006 and on the TF 100? The results of an MSA don't really care about the "exactness" of the tests, but more on techniques and repeatability and consistency.

    If your sigma values are very different, you will have your answer.
    16 x 32 17500 gallons
    Vinyl in-ground
    Hayward 250# Sand Filter
    1 HP Pump
    Hayward SWG

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,602

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    In all honesty, it should not matter where the standard comes from (assuming you want to spend the cost of a full test kit on just one standard). If the standard is offered as a "NIST Traceable" standard, then it's manufacturing has to conform to a precise set of conditions and practices in order to obtain a NIST Certificate (and NIST will have confirmed it's exact value as an independent source). It's similar to how a manufacturing facility can only obtain an ISO certification if it conforms to set of perquisite conditions as well as on-going monitoring.

    I would caution against getting too caught up in all of this. NIST-traceable standards are often very expensive and you could easily spend the cost of several test kits worth of money on these standards only to gain very minimal and statistically meaningless information...but have at it if you wish....
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  19. Back To Top    #19



    TFP Guide
    GaryT58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Monroe, GA
    Posts
    570

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    In all honesty, it should not matter where the standard comes from (assuming you want to spend the cost of a full test kit on just one standard). If the standard is offered as a "NIST Traceable" standard, then it's manufacturing has to conform to a precise set of conditions and practices in order to obtain a NIST Certificate (and NIST will have confirmed it's exact value as an independent source). It's similar to how a manufacturing facility can only obtain an ISO certification if it conforms to set of perquisite conditions as well as on-going monitoring.

    I would caution against getting too caught up in all of this. NIST-traceable standards are often very expensive and you could easily spend the cost of several test kits worth of money on these standards only to gain very minimal and statistically meaningless information...but have at it if you wish....
    I understand that after all of this that I may simply prove that my system is sufficiently accurate for my purposes, which is really what I want. I would like to understand if the NIST sample for example for cyn is 50, that if my readings are 53-47, then good. I also understand the costs can be a bit, but that can be countered over time by not over/under chemical feeding of pool.

    I read/seen a wide variance of opinions on various testers from users claiming one better than the other. Ideally I would love to see a independent review of the various kits from an impartial reviewer (yes redundant)
    using NIST standards.

    When I look at a piece or audio, or video, or test gear, I can find reviews that measure performance with real test gear with well defined methods, which are repeatable. So I was hoping to find the same for these tests.

    So, yes maybe I am being too picky and should just accept that its working, but from my background it hard.

    Thanks

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Griswald View Post
    Why not just perform an MSA on the ColorQ and on a Taylor k2006 and on the TF 100? The results of an MSA don't really care about the "exactness" of the tests, but more on techniques and repeatability and consistency.

    If your sigma values are very different, you will have your answer.
    Sorry, not familiar with the term MSA.

    Without knowing the actual value, the range alone is not enough. For example, if test A shows ph as 7.55 - 7.45 and test B show PH as 7.71-7.69, which is better? If I know the real PH is 7.5, then I could live with either if I know they are consistent, but would probably prefer test A since if is closer to real value, even though the range is wider.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Hope Mills, NC
    Posts
    556

    Re: Where to puchase standards solutions

    Measurement Systems Analysis, a six sigma tool to verify that an instrument is correct within your expected tolerances.

    Basically you have a few people run the tests on the same samples and plug those values into a sigma calculator like Minitab. The results are statistically corrected so you can tell if your measurement system is good enough. For example, you buy the standard and your 50 ppm solution shows 42. How do you know that you didnt affect the results by misreading or poor technique? Or, you get 50 and say your tester is perfect, again how do you know you tested correctly? A MSA takes all of the factors into account and "normalizes" them.

    Engineering geek stuff, but very useful.
    16 x 32 17500 gallons
    Vinyl in-ground
    Hayward 250# Sand Filter
    1 HP Pump
    Hayward SWG

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •