Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: pre-dissolve CYA?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    649

    pre-dissolve CYA?

    I'm in the process of new plaster start-up. Instead of the hanging sock method, is there any reason I can't dissolve CYA in a bucket of water now so it will be ready when I need to add it to the pool?
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

  2. Back To Top    #2


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,374

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollercoastr View Post
    I'm in the process of new plaster start-up. Instead of the hanging sock method, is there any reason I can't dissolve CYA in a bucket of water now so it will be ready when I need to add it to the pool?
    You can, but it takes forever to dissolve.

    I even tried using very hot water and a paint mixer in an electric drill. I mixed until the water got cold and it still was not totally dissolved.

    Learning the sock method was one of the great tricks I picked up from TFP.

    Why do you not want to do the sock method?
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    I found that if you let is sit and soak in the sock for a while THEN squeeze it, then soak, then squeeze it speeds it up. I just walked around in the pool and did it.

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    649

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post
    Why do you not want to do the sock method?
    I just want to get everything in and balanced asap. All the mfr wants me to do at this stage is add sequestrant and balance pH. I'm nervous as heck about having zero FC in the pool in the meantime. It sounds like a moot point though - if I wanted to quickly add CYA, clearly I should've started dissolving before the pool was filled.

    No big deal, I'll phase everything in.
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    You should be nervous about no FC. Add some pronto. Keep it 2-3 ppm until you get cya in there. You don't want algae and you don't want to have to SLAM a pool with new plaster. High FC isn't good for new plaster. I would add CYA now and do lots of sock squeezing.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,374

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    You should be nervous about no FC. Add some pronto. Keep it 2-3 ppm until you get cya in there. You don't want algae and you don't want to have to SLAM a pool with new plaster. High FC isn't good for new plaster. I would add CYA now and do lots of sock squeezing.

    Get your FC up right away!
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    649

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    You should be nervous about no FC. Add some pronto. Keep it 2-3 ppm until you get cya in there.
    Well sure enough, the footnote refers to no FC for 3 days as a "suggested guideline". I'll guess I should suggest different guidelines.
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

  8. Back To Top    #8

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Do you have iron in your water? If not, you do not need sequestrant.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    649

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    It's city water and none of the plumbing fixtures in the house have any staining, but the previous plaster stained severely during my SLAM. The pool was a mess when I took possession though. Very low pH, low CH, no sanitation (he used Br) and green water.

    The startup recommendations suggest a sequestrant, so I added it just to be safe.

    The mfr (SGM) pointed me to these guidelines on their website:

    1. After the finish is exposed, let it air dry for as long as conditions will allow. Delaying the fill water a few hours or until the next morning will reduce the occurrence of shade variations (Mottling). Care must be taken not to over-dry the plaster and cause shrinkage cracking. There are no substitutes for experience and knowledge of local conditions in determining how long to let plaster air dry.
    2. Pre-filter the water with a carbon tank and use a sequestering agent to eliminate stain-causing contaminants.
    3. Start the circulation system as soon as possible using the main drain line. Do Not start the system until the water level is above the return inlets. Circulate the pool continuously for the first 3 days.
    4. On the first day test and record chlorine, pH, total alkalinity, calcium hardness and temperature levels. Adjust pH to 7.2 to 7.4 and the Total Alkalinity to 100ppm. Dissolve all chemicals in water first and allow sufficient time for each chemical to be fully dispersed before adding others. Do Not add chlorine or calcium chloride.
    5. Brush the entire surface twice each day for the first 3 days. Clean the filter as needed.
    6. On the second day, repeat steps 4 and 5 above.
    7. On the third day adjust all the chemistry to the following levels:
    Free Chlorine: 1.0 to 3.0 ppm Ph: 7.4 to 7.6 Total Alkalinity 80 - 120 ppm
    Calcium Hardness: 200 - 400 ppm Stabilizer: 30 to 100 ppm

    8. Adjust the pump timer to normal operating hours.
    9. Do not install automatic pool cleaners for 28 days.
    10. Do not vacuum the pool with a wheeled vacuum for 14 days, to avoid leaving "Wheel Marks". Brush type vacuums may be used immediately.
    11. Brush pool walls and floor daily for the first 2 weeks.
    Important Note: these suggested guidelines are based on feedback from our customers throughout the nation. They represent an average of what has worked best for the majority and do not guarantee you will not experience common plaster phenomenon such as staining, mottling, efflorescence and scale. Water supplies vary from one municipality to the next and therefore common sense, experience and good testing procedures must be followed. Refer to the N.S.P.I. guidelines on start up and chemistry for more detailed information.
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Ok, good.


    Priority 1 do what the installer says

    Priority 2 do what the manufacturer says, more here, http://www.sgm.cc/html_Pool/HomeOwne...chemistry.html Hey, that's what you said,

    Then we will fill in the blanks.

    Congrats on the new plaster.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    4,615

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    If money isn't too much of an issue you could use liquid CYA.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    649

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post

    Priority 2 do what the manufacturer says
    I lack confidence in those mfr recommendations because they come from customers, not experts, but apparently the only red flag was the period of zero chlorine? I think I dodged that bullet. Yesterday afternoon marked 60 hours since the pool was full and I started the pump. pH has started to stabilize, at least within reason. I brought CL to 1ppm and hung the sock. I bumped it to 2 before bed. CC tested zero and the water is perfectly clear.

    FC 2
    CC 0
    pH 7.4
    TA 100
    CYA dissolving now
    CH adding today

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    If money isn't too much of an issue you could use liquid CYA.
    I didn't know that was an option, but now that the invoice for resurfacing is staring at me, money is an issue!
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Sounds good. The main difference is that they ask for lower PH, which is fine. I wouldn't try too hard to keep TA at 100, if it wants to be loweriwould let it. Adding acid to lower PH will slowly lower your TA. CH at 250ppm is our recommendation. And is a bit more important when keeping pH lower to make sure there isn't any etching.

    Oh, and we're gonna need some pics!
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Northville, Mi
    Posts
    307

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollercoastr View Post
    I lack confidence in those mfr recommendations because they come from customers, not experts, but apparently the only red flag was the period of zero chlorine? I think I dodged that bullet. Yesterday afternoon marked 60 hours since the pool was full and I started the pump. pH has started to stabilize, at least within reason. I brought CL to 1ppm and hung the sock. I bumped it to 2 before bed. CC tested zero and the water is perfectly clear.

    FC 2
    CC 0
    pH 7.4
    TA 100
    CYA dissolving now
    CH adding today



    I didn't know that was an option, but now that the invoice for resurfacing is staring at me, money is an issue!
    The liquid stuff is about $30 for a gallon. Each bottle should raise your CYA by about 30.
    15,400 gal, 16x32 vinyl rectangle (sport dig), Intelliflo VS, 240 sqft cartridge filter, Intellichlor IC40, Mastertemp 250, Dolphin supreme M4 cleaning, Pentair EasyTouch4

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    649

    Re: pre-dissolve CYA?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Oh, and we're gonna need some pics!
    Obliged! I started a construction thread: My resurfacing project
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •