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Thread: Distance piping pump/sand filter

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    Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Just reading Hydraulics 101stckey and I have a question about this statement:

    "Also, when designing a plumbing system, it is a good idea to have a separate suction line from each skimmer and/or main drain pair from the pool all the way to the pump. This keeps the suction head low so the pump basket will not draw in air."

    Do I understand this to mean that instead of connecting a skimmer/drain together at the pool end with shut off valves and a Tee Fitting to a single suction line (a single 30' run of pipe) to the pump, that each skimmer/drain line should have its own dedicated suction line and shut off valves from the pool to the pump location and there, at the pump end, it is combined together with a Tee Fitting to single line into the pump? If my rough distance was 30', at each skimmer/drain location at the pool I would have the connector from the pool to a shut off valve, then each would have 30' (2- 30' pipe runs side by side of return plumbing to the pump pad) which would be connected by a Tee Fitting and a single line into the pump? Does the same apply to return lines?

    So, if I had 2 skimmer/drain connections and 2- return connections at the pool, that I would run 2 - 30' suction lines and 2 a 30' return lines. (120 feet of piping to and from the pump pad to the pool). I would put 2- shut off valves at the pool end and connect the 2 suction lines into 1 at the pump pad. The same applies for the return lines?

    My friends these are the questions that come up when you give an upholsterer too much information...
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    LOL!!! It's all good. Yes, that is what it means. My pool has the drain plumbed to the pad and skimmers plumbed to the pad. But, that is more geared toward inground pools that have plumbing underground and equipment pads farther away.

    You would do well to check out Cowboy Casey, Jeffchap and titleistseemore pools. They all have nicely upgraded Intex pools.

    Here, I was feeling nice and grabbed them for you.
    New pump arrived today
    New Pool Build Questions
    New above ground oval 18x33 install

    Connect the drain and skimmer lines to a 3way valve in front of the pump. It is nice to be able to have more or less suction from the skimmers or the drain. You can accomplish the same thing pool side on an above ground pool and then have one line back to the pump. Returns have a single line from the he filter/SWG to the pool, it it ties into a loop that feeds all of the pool returns. The loop is an equalizer that balances the pressure so each return gets the same water flow.

    Now, more questions?
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Yep, more questions..
    I was asking because I'm considering moving the new 1hp Intex pump and sand filter (3000 gph/ 2450 actual flow) about 30 feet from the location of the pool to get it out of the way...does a line for everything to the equipment pad still ring true? One line for each skimmer/drain and one line for each return, (for me that's 4 lines total. Two suction/two return) both sets connected to a 3-way valve in front of the pump? Both the suction lines and the return lines should be plumbed the same way at that distance? Or should I just leave well enough alone and keep the pump next to the pool?

    Will the the questions ever end!!
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    and one line for each return
    That statement does not apply to return lines. Only suction. But with an Intex pool, do you have more than one skimmer or a MD anyway?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    The new style Intex, as of 2014 I think, has one return but two suctionsimage.jpg to satisfy liability issues.
    I was going to plumb one suction for the skimmer and one for a separate vacuum connection since there are two already. I had thought about adding a second return to improve circulation.
    So on the return side, there is no need to plumb more than one return line back to the pool equipment pad from the pool? I could have two, let's say 2", suction side lines plumbed from pool to the pool equipment pad and one 2" return line plumbed to the equipment pad back to the pool. Even with two returns in the pool.
    For the suction side, the three way valve would be at the pool equipment pad but if I had two returns into the pool, that valve to adjust flow between the two returns, could be at the pool?
    Again, my apologies for the questions. I'm sure you've answered them a million times. I pretty handy, but they left out the plumbing gene in this upholsterers DNA......
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    It would be fine to valve suction and return at the pool and run a single suction and single return line from the pool to the pump.
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Actually, to maintain the safety feature of an equalization port, you don't want the lines too long so I would treat that as a dual MD with a single line to the pump.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    You guys are great. I appreciate that you would take the time to talk/walk me through this so I get it right..I guess that's what the site is all about.
    I'll split both the suction and the return at the pool and plumb one return line and one suction line to/from the pump. 2" ok or should I go bigger between the pump pad and pool?
    its ok to use a three way valve at the split of the suction and at the return lines to better
    control flow from each?

    Mas....what's a dual MD??? Main Drain?? Just not familiar with the abbreviation...sorry, lay men's brain
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Yes, MD = Main Drain. PBs are now required to split the MD into two and have a large connecting pipe between them to minimize pressure differences. That way one cover can be completely blocked and it won't create much suction to hold someone down.

    Also, 2" is more than sufficient. Will the pump be higher or lower than it would be right next to the pool?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    The pad for the pool equipment will be about 30' from pool and at the same height as it would be if it were next to the pool. I don't think I have to bury the plumbing (suction & return lines) down too far because of the route it will take to the pool. But I imagine the plumbing will be about 6-8 inches below the pool slab and the equipment pad once it goesi in the ground.

    I've been thinking about upgrading the pump/sand filter for a couple reasons. It would be nice to have a little more power to vacuum and run a simple automatic cleaner, but also to increase the circulation in the pool. And, as you know, bigger IS better!! LOL . The purchase of an inexpensive 1hp is the easiest way to fix the problem.

    But after reading the articles in your signature and other threads, maybe a simple jump to a 1hp pump pump isn't the answer. The small 1/2 hp pump that came with the pool seems to do the job, except the vacuuming, and according to the articles is really more that enough to keep floating debris out of the pool and the chemicals mixed.

    Maybe I should take the time to research a two speed system...on low speed, could a two speed pump move water efficiently if it was 30' away from the pool? Any suggestions from your experience about pump/filter combinations that might accomplish what I want?

    Again, thanks for your time mas......
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Yes, a 1/2 to 1 hp 2 speed pump will move water fine through 30' of 2" plumbing. You are definitely on the right track thinking 2 speed. Low for filtering and high for vacuuming. A 2 speed pump moves 1/2 the water while using 1/4 the electricity.
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Ahhh, a breakthrough. At least I'm moving the right direction...
    Any recommendations based on your experience? Or, if I stay with name brand equipment, Pentair or Hayward for example, I'll be ok, generally speaking. Pump flow rates vs. sand filter flow rates seem to baffle me. Most of the time they aren't listed in the advertisement. Just size or lbs of sand for the filter and HP for the pump. I'm afraid that with my limited experience I'll end up with a too much pump or a not enough. Then it would have been better to go bigger/cheaper with a single speed 1hp.

    I may make a couple choices and look for a bit of feedback, not an endorsement, on my selection.....
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    So, the best answer to that question is what are your longterm plans? How is your crystal ball working? Tell us your future plans.
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Schnozz View Post
    Pump flow rates vs. sand filter flow rates seem to baffle me. Most of the time they aren't listed in the advertisement. Just size or lbs of sand for the filter and HP for the pump. I'm afraid that with my limited experience I'll end up with a too much pump or a not enough.
    Generally, smaller is better when it comes to pumps. Intex is probably the only exception because they make really small pumps that do not have enough power for vacuuming or fast skimming. As for filters, bigger is better.

    One option that you can get pretty good deals on are the AG combo units that have both the pump and filter together.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    pooldv...I believe.......Ill be staying with above ground pools, probably Intex but not necessarily, most assuredly bigger and sooner than later. A 16 x 32 will probably max me out space wise and I like/prefer the rectangular shape. (Just by coincidence, The New pour happening this month will accommodate the larger size pool. Huh, go figure!!) I'm TOO old to start an in ground build and permitting is a real pain in our area of the county......

    mas...That's what I figured. I'll post a couple I've found.

    And to both if you....A little help reading/understanding the specs would be appreciated.
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    How about this combination....

    Energy Efficient 2 Speed Pump for Above-Ground Pool 1 HP-115V with Fittings

    Paired with this sand filter..

    Hayward Pro Series 24 Inch In Ground Pool Sand Filter


    or one of these factory combination set ups:

    Hayward S210T932S Pro-Series 21-Inch Two Speed Sand Filter System with Valve 1-1/2 Horse Power Above-Ground Pool Sand Filter System

    Waterway CI52253876S 22 in. Sand Filter System 2 HP Dual Speed Pump.

    Can you let me know if it appears I am seeing the light. Again, not looking for a endorsement of the particular product, just to know I'm getting close to the target.......
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    I would stick with Hayward or Pentair. Pentair also has a combo.

    PENTAIR Sand

    And Hayward

    ProSeries Systems | Filters | Above Ground Pool Filters - Hayward Pool Products
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    Neither has many dual speed pumps/filter sets . The ones that are, only come as 1 1/2 hp. I'll keep on the hunt...
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Distance piping pump/sand filter

    The higher HP pumps that they use are not really that big. They are uprated or even SPL rated which is double up rated. So the 2 HP Dynamo pump on the Pentair system is really the equivalent of a 1 HP full rated pump.

    Look at these systems:

    Pentair PNSD0060DP2160

    or

    Hayward S230T932S

    BTW, these pumps are actually smaller (produce less flow rate) than my 1/2 HP pump. You can't always go by label HP.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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