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Thread: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

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    Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    First time pool owner - which was installed this spring. REAALLLYY wished I had found this site before the build, as I find I'm already replacing parts and/or wishing for upgrades. I have a AutoPilot Total Control controller on backorder, which I hope to have very shortly, to replace the undersized SWG installed and provide more features.

    My existing Pentair SuperFlo SF-N1-1A (220v - 1HP) works fine, but I want to move to a variable speed pump. I have 19,000 gallon, in-ground, sand filter, swg, no water features and no plans to ever add any. At night I install pool cooling fountains into two of the returns. Because of that, and just like constant water movement/filtering in the hot summers here, the pump will run at/near 24/7. I like the idea of being able to dial in the speed to find the optimum rate for my pool running 24/7, while providing the 20 gpm minimum that the cell requires.

    I will have the autopilot control the pump (turn on/of), so will remove existing manual timer. Would like pump to come up (after priming) to the speed I programmed. Initial cost is not the major concern. Want quiet/efficient pump that I can dial in and save $$.

    I am not married to Pentair. Would be great to not have to do any plumbing, so a drop in replacement would be great, or if possible to replace just the motor itself. Looking at Hayward SP2602VSP, Pentair SuperFlo VS. But if selecting another model makes more sense (i.e. Intelliflo) then I will replumb. I would appreciate any suggestions or especially lessons from those that have replaced this pump as well.

    Thanks
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Gary,

    Well, I'm not sure that you can control the SuperFlo VS with your plan. Unlike the pump you have now, which only turns on when power is applied, the Superflo requires constant 120 or 220 volts. It then uses it's internal timer to turn the unit on when scheduled. To externally change speeds you will need to use an automation system with 4 relays, one for each speed you want.

    Nothing says you can't program the SuperFlo's timer to do what you want, speed and time wise, but I don't think you can externally control what it does based upon a single relay in the Autopilot.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Jim is spot on in his description of external control l options for the super flo pump.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Gary,

    Well, I'm not sure that you can control the SuperFlo VS with your plan. Unlike the pump you have now, which only turns on when power is applied, the Superflo requires constant 120 or 220 volts. It then uses it's internal timer to turn the unit on when scheduled. To externally change speeds you will need to use an automation system with 4 relays, one for each speed you want.

    Nothing says you can't program the SuperFlo's timer to do what you want, speed and time wise, but I don't think you can externally control what it does based upon a single relay in the Autopilot.

    Jim R.
    Thanks. As I said, I am not married to any specific model, just would like to eliminate replumbing if possible. So is there a VS unit which would power on with external relay, prime and then run at the pre-programed speed?
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Gary,

    I am a little puzzled as to what you want to do?? You can program the SuperFlo vs to come on when you want, and run different speeds, at different times. So I am puzzled why you need to be able to control it via an external relay?

    As far as I know, all vs pumps have built in control panels and need constant AC power. But I am far from being a pump expert. Let's see if one jumps in..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Gary,

    I am a little puzzled as to what you want to do?? You can program the SuperFlo vs to come on when you want, and run different speeds, at different times. So I am puzzled why you need to be able to control it via an external relay?

    As far as I know, all vs pumps have built in control panels and need constant AC power. But I am far from being a pump expert. Let's see if one jumps in..

    Jim R.
    I want the autopilot to control the on/off time of the pump. I want it to come up, prime and run at the rate that was programmed in the pump or for the default speed programmed in the pump. I do not want to have to program two different timers - one for pump, one for SWG. I plan on having system running 24/7 for most of the time. So basically I want it to treat as a single speed pump, but use VS so I can pick the "best" single speed for my pool setup.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryT58 View Post
    I want the autopilot to control the on/off time of the pump. I want it to come up, prime and run at the rate that was programmed in the pump or for the default speed programmed in the pump. I do not want to have to program two different timers - one for pump, one for SWG. I plan on having system running 24/7 for most of the time.
    Normally SWG's are slaved to a pump not the other way around. In other words, the SWG receives no power unless the pump is powered and running. My suggestion to you is that you stick to one vendor. Right now you are trying to match a Pentair pump with a Autopilot SWG - it's like trying to put Ford quarter panels on a Chevy car frame.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Normally SWG's are slaved to a pump not the other way around. In other words, the SWG receives no power unless the pump is powered and running. My suggestion to you is that you stick to one vendor. Right now you are trying to match a Pentair pump with a Autopilot SWG - it's like trying to put Ford quarter panels on a Chevy car frame.
    Actually, they are both typically slaved to a power source. In my current configuration both the pump and swg are tied to a manual timer to provide power. By utilizing the relay/pump feature in the autopilot I reduce the # of components (remove external timer) and make sure that the pump and swg are still only run together.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    I don't think you will find a VS pump to suit the desired operation of your setup. It really isn't a big deal to let the pump run on its own built in timer. If you are demanding that the pump power cycle with your relays you may want to consider a 2 speed pump rather than a VS pump. The superflo VS has a relatively limited ability to communicate with anything outside of its own onboard electronics. There are other more advanced pump controllers but none that I know up cut power to the pump electronics when the pump isn't running.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    So what is wrong with using the relay to turn on and off the pump and then using the internal pump drive timers to switch speeds? The SuperFlo VS remembers the timer settings with the power off.

    Also, the SuperFlo VS has relay terminals that can control the speed as well but you would need external relays for that.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    So what is wrong with using the relay to turn on and off the pump and then using the internal pump drive timers to switch speeds? The SuperFlo VS remembers the timer settings with the power off.

    Also, the SuperFlo VS has relay terminals that can control the speed as well but you would need external relays for that.
    Thanks, Mark... if the Superflow remembers its timer settings with the power removed, then it appears what Gary wants to do should work just fine..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    So what is wrong with using the relay to turn on and off the pump and then using the internal pump drive timers to switch speeds? The SuperFlo VS remembers the timer settings with the power off.

    Also, the SuperFlo VS has relay terminals that can control the speed as well but you would need external relays for that.
    Thanks Mark. That is what I thought. I was curious if anyone out there is actually doing this, so they can share if it is working okay for them. The Autopilot has a flow sensor which is supposed to turn off the cell if there is insufficient/no flow. But being paranoid, I do not want to rely upon that as being a normal part of the equation, so why I thought it would be nice to wire like I was thinking.

    Also, as I said, I plan in most cases to run this 24/7, only shutting down for maintenance, so would prefer one switch rather than two.

    Thanks
    Gary

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also to be clear. I do not plan on having different speed settings. Just want to set for one good speed that will keep sufficient water flow to pool and to swg. So like being able to select a speed that works best for my pool/plumbing/swg.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryT58 View Post
    Also to be clear. I do not plan on having different speed settings. Just want to set for one good speed that will keep sufficient water flow to pool and to swg. So like being able to select a speed that works best for my pool/plumbing/swg.
    Seems a little silly to get a VS then. You would probably end up with a lower lifetime cost with just a two speed motor replacement.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Seems a little silly to get a VS then. You would probably end up with a lower lifetime cost with just a two speed motor replacement.
    With 2 speed I have limited choices of speeds. With VS I can dial it to the lowest rate that will fill my needs, so maximize savings.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Unless the "perfect" speed you set turns out to be the same as what the 2-speed would be. Then you only managed to maximize your costs.

    Sent with Tapatalk on HTC Ten
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryT58 View Post
    With 2 speed I have limited choices of speeds. With VS I can dial it to the lowest rate that will fill my needs, so maximize savings.
    Yes but you may never make up the cost difference between the VS and two speed motor.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    what controls the current swg. if you have 2 power supplies then just use one for the Pentair vs and the timer for the new swg. the vs can be set to whatever times you want. its onboard controller is pretty easy to set up.
    aprox 18k in ground

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    I thank you for the inputs. A Pentair SuperFlo VS 1.5HP (342001) is $683 and the Pentair SuperFlo 2 Speed (340043) is $479, so difference of $204. The VS can run from 300 - 3450 RPM. The dual speed runs at 1750 and 3450 rpm. So, I should be able to run lower than 1750 (i.e. 1400) and meet the flow rate needed for my purposes. Since I do not know specifically the rate, I would rather not risk it on a 2 speed.

    I appreciate the concern for the cost difference, but I want the flexibility of the VS.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by barnnns1 View Post
    what controls the current swg. if you have 2 power supplies then just use one for the Pentair vs and the timer for the new swg. the vs can be set to whatever times you want. its onboard controller is pretty easy to set up.
    Again, I do not want separate timers. I do not want to worry that the timers will always be in sync. The pool pilot has the control built in, so I want to use it.
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Since you already have a SuperFlo, you can replace the motor with a two speed motor for much less than $479.

    B2980 - Buy AO Smith Pool and Spa Pump motor - $233.00

    But if it is flexibility you are after, even though I don't think you really need it, then go for the VS. If you do though, make sure you put in a surge protector to protect your investment. They are an easy target for power surges.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Replacing Pentair SuperFlo with VS help

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Since you already have a SuperFlo, you can replace the motor with a two speed motor for much less than $479.

    B2980 - Buy AO Smith Pool and Spa Pump motor - $233.00

    But if it is flexibility you are after, even though I don't think you really need it, then go for the VS. If you do though, make sure you put in a surge protector to protect your investment. They are an easy target for power surges.
    Thanks Mark, that is a big price difference. One fear I have is if I select a two speed and the lower speed is to slow for the SWG, then I get no savings. With the VS, I can dial in, higher or lower to get it to work. The display on the VS will show me the gpm so I can make sure I am operating in a good range for the swg.

    Again thanks,

    Gary
    38'x16' Fiberglass pool - 3.5' - 8' deep - 19,000 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWG (RC-52 cell), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair SD70 Sand Filter, Coverstar Automatic Cover, 10' board, PAL Treo lighting, Polaris 9550 Sport robot, Lamotte ColorQ Pro 7 test kit.

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