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Thread: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

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    how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    We just finished our new pool and had "upgraded" the deep end from 8 feet to 9 feet deep. But now that it's finished the deep end is "only" 8'7" at best. I measured with a PVC pipe that I marked with inches.

    Given our spa over flow, the waterline can not be increased any further.

    How accurate is your pool depth? When you paid for X feet deep, did you get X feet deep?
    In ground, 45' x 22', 8' spa, Gunite, Quartzscape, Pentair

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    I don't know, I never measured it. But, that sounds pretty close.

    Edit: what does the spa overflow have to do with the water depth in the pool? Doesn't the spa flow into the pool? You should be able to increase the pool water level with no impact to the spa.
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Ours was always going to be + or - a few inches. Did you upgrade to 9' to the waterline, or to the coping? It seems to me that if you specifically upgraded from 8' to 9', and the PB only got about half-way there, you should get back at least half of the upgrade cost.
    Owner Build. 32x16, with 6x8 raised spa. Broke ground April 1, 2016, swimming July 18. Pentair Intelliflo VS + Whisperflo for Water features; Clean & Clear Filter 420; Master Temp Heater 400k BTU; Intellibrite 120V pool and spa lights; Regular ol' plaster.

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZonieInCa View Post
    We just finished our new pool and had "upgraded" the deep end from 8 feet to 9 feet deep. But now that it's finished the deep end is "only" 8'7" at best. I measured with a PVC pipe that I marked with inches.

    Given our spa over flow, the waterline can not be increased any further.

    How accurate is your pool depth? When you paid for X feet deep, did you get X feet deep?
    I get the not getting precisely what you wanted aspect, but is there a practical difference?
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    While I'm still new from what I've read "depth" is commonly measured by PB's to the top of pool, not the waterline. This is a common builder gimmick (I guess to dig less, shoot less gunite, etc??) if not specified by the owner. Did you ask for 9' deep at waterline? I've specifically asked for 4'/5'/4' waterline because at these shallower depths a 6" difference can be substantial.

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    The depth of your pool for purposes of sales presentations and plans is measured from the normal waterline or about halfway up the tile.

    How much of a premium did you pay for the deeper pool?

    Generally, there are additional costs for rebar and other work in a pool deeper than about eight feet. For example, Pool Engineering's standard engineering supplement requires more rebar on the walls in pools deeper than eight feet. You should be able to see the difference comparing the deep walls with the shallow walls.

    Where are they in your pool construction? You can measure this at the rebar stage if its an issue.

    Are you planning a diving board? Why did you want 9 feet.?
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    I'm always being told by my PB that contractors are allowed a 5% variance by law... which I think is a CA law? While your TOTAL depth variance is within that allowance, the UPGRADE that was done is way off from that... your upgrade is off by 42% (7inches when it should be a foot) and that is not acceptable in regards to the work done for the upgrade... I would certainly raise concern about the upgrade and that considering (assuming) you payed money for that upgrade, the work was not done anywhere near the agreed upon measurements. Check into the allowed variances as outlined by local LAW as well as in your contract... but I'd make a strong bet that in now way was the upgrade done properly. Keep it focused on the upgrade and not the overall depth... as mentioned above by azdesertpool above, you should be able to argue your upgrade payment...
    Pool-15x31', Spa-7x9', depth 3.5-6', HP Pentair Whisper Flow pump/motor, Intelliflo 8-160, 4-to-8 speed, Pentair 320 Clean and Clear capacity filter (upgraded to 400,000BTU stackless heater). Stacked stone- Autumn Rose Classic, tile- Ridgeline Blue Slate, coping- Turning Leaf Quartzite. Start date 7/12/16! Progress thread

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    Pool was just filled last Saturday - it's a brand new build. Here is the build thread:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/113605-New-build-in-San-Diego-CA

    Upgrade from 8'0" to 9'0" was $2,219

    I'm happy with the overall result, but our PB was very difficult to work with and we've had a number of smallish problems like this that I'm working through - lots of quartzscape overspray on tile,

    The contract was written as 3'6" for shallow end and 9'0" for deep end. Shallow end is 3'5". Deep end is 8'7".

    > Are you planning a diving board? Why did you want 9 feet.

    Just a jumping rock. And I only decided to measure once I bumped the bottom a couple times on big cannon balls. I think it still safe to use and its fun, but I'd take another 5" if it was there - especially since its in the contract (but actually haven't made final payment to PB yet...).

    Growing up in AZ our pool had a "real" deep end and diving board. I thought it was fun. I suppose a lot of this is all just recreating childhood memories.

    > requires more rebar on the walls in pools deeper than eight feet

    Yes there was lots of rebar - and more because the deep end is on a slope.

    > Edit: what does the spa overflow have to do with the water depth in the pool? Doesn't the spa flow into the pool? You should be able to increase the pool water level with no impact to the spa.

    I'm a newbie here, so maybe I'm wrong on this, but if I set the water depth any higher cold pool water will flow into the spa... ? I'll post a photo...
    In ground, 45' x 22', 8' spa, Gunite, Quartzscape, Pentair

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Photo of spa overflow and deep end. (while filling - is full now)

    In ground, 45' x 22', 8' spa, Gunite, Quartzscape, Pentair

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    You have a claim. However, if I were the PB I would argue you should have caught it at the rebar stage. That you have a duty to inspect.

    On the other hand its a consumer transaction. Most don't have the ability to do that inspection.

    You can withhold some of the final payment, complain to the Contractors State License Board. Do both. Do nothing.

    How much do you owe him on the final?

    Remember if he is a butt head he can record a mechanic's lien against your house. But I would suspect he won't because he would need help to do that.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Disregard my comments about raising the pool water level independent of the spa water level. I thought the spa was raised. As it is you are correct, the pool water level cannot be raised.

    It certainly does not hurt to point out the depth issue to the builder and ask for a reduction in the upgrade price.
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    See the linked article below about why they time to the 100th place in swimming, and how official olympic pools are allowed to vary in length by 3" due to being nearly impossible to create a concrete pool to tighter tolerances.

    Based on that, I think you are about as close as you an expect.

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    You hit the bottom with cannonballs at 8.5' depth off that rock? Dear me... I now have a question about my pool... I'm worried about the safety and actual use of my rock... going to make a post...
    Pool-15x31', Spa-7x9', depth 3.5-6', HP Pentair Whisper Flow pump/motor, Intelliflo 8-160, 4-to-8 speed, Pentair 320 Clean and Clear capacity filter (upgraded to 400,000BTU stackless heater). Stacked stone- Autumn Rose Classic, tile- Ridgeline Blue Slate, coping- Turning Leaf Quartzite. Start date 7/12/16! Progress thread

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Goesage,

    Technically, the initial build could have been within the variance and the upgrade could be 11.5 inches.

    I had a depth issue and made them change it after the Rebar and before the gunite. Generally the Rebar is raised three inches off the floor before the Gunite but sometimes the PB may raise it more and you end up losing depth because of that. I don't think it's the consumers responsibility to discern whether the depth is accurate. The typical consumer wouldn't even know when to measure ( after dig or after rebar) or how to calculate what the actual depth would be. I would complain to PB that the upgrade was not done right and the fee for that upgrade should not be paid. A compromise of a $1000 off the upgrade fee seems fair. Keep in mind had you not upgraded it may have been 7 feet six inches.

    For prospective new pool owners perhaps you should put in the contract the depth will be " no less than x and no more than y" to try to control the variation. At least then the PB may focus a bit more on getting an accurate depth.
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by camueller View Post
    See the linked article below about why they time to the 100th place in swimming, and how official olympic pools are allowed to vary in length by 3" due to being nearly impossible to create a concrete pool to tighter tolerances.

    Based on that, I think you are about as close as you an expect.

    This Is Why There Are So Many Ties In Swimming
    The tolerance is 3 centimeters or about 1.2 inches.

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    Depths should always be specified from proposed top of deck or proposed top of water elevations. This eliminates ambiguity. Having said that, your responsibility lies in making sure the contract includes language specific to your desires and expectations. You are in no way responsible to verify dimensions, thicknesses, or locations for anything related to the build. This is soley the builder's responsibility. I can see an inch or two varience from plan for something like depth, length, or width on a recreational pool, but 5 to 7 inches someone just wasn't paying attention. Your builder charged you for an upgrade he didn't deliver, therefore you shouldn't pay for it.

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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    PB problems aside, that is a beautiful pool!
    "...chemistry is not an exact science" -Mario Andrada, Rio 2016 Olympics spokesman
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    You can construct a pool to any dimensions you wish. As the article points out, after its constructed it may not stay the same size.

    I've never heard of a 5% tolarsnce in construction or sprcifically in pools. There are industry standards for example a pool must be level to 1/4 inch. But here the op contracted for 9 feet and that's what he should get. The question is what are the damages or do you make him redo it?

    And just to be clear, at least in California the owner does have a duty to inspect and supervise the contractor. It's more than taking out a tape measures to measure depth at the rebar stage but it does not take special equipment. On the other hand it's a consumer transaction.
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    gwegan industry standard for fiberglass pools is within 1" of level. Personal pool builder standards will vary, me personally I go for the 1/4"
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    Re: how accurate is the depth of your pool?

    swimcmp is correct and I should have been more clear. The industry standard for the tile line of a gunite pool in Californian is 1/4"

    Fiberglass pools are very different animals.
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