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Thread: Is it common not having to backwash?

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    Is it common not having to backwash?

    We got our first pool when we purchased our new house last year. When we opened it this year and replaced the failed liner, the company who did the maintenance gave us some advice how to maintain the pool. I never followed his advice as I learned about TFP and have been doing it since.

    The gauge shows 10 psi when off, and fluctuates 10-16 psi while running, most I have seen it is 16 psi, but currently it is back down to 10-11 psi. It has been in use since the end of May. Is it normal it goes so long without having to be back washed? I keep the pool very clean, I have a Dolphin M400 and I skim the leaves every day or other day at best. The chemicals are in perfect, so I know it will last longer, but seems just worried I'm going too long.

    It seems to work really well, the pressure changes, so I know it isn't "stuck" but usually is only 10-12, at some point it was around 16 but after getting the robot and keeping the pool clean I rarely see it over 12-14.
    I am guessing they backwashed it when they did the liner and "opened" the pool. They mentioned they found the DE, and there was DE around the skimmer hole.

    The filter is a Hayward DE7220.
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Chris,

    I have a couple of rent houses that have DE filters.. I never backwash, instead I break down the filter twice a year and clean everything and then put them back together with fresh DE. Of course both of these pool have VS pumps and my normal filter pressure is only about 3 PSI..

    So, I suggest that after this season is over, you breakdown the filter whether the pressure goes up or not. It will give you an idea if you should backwash or clean more often.

    Couple of questions for you..

    1. What type of pump do you have?

    2. How do you know your chemicals are "perfect"? How are you testing your water?

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Chris,

    I have a couple of rent houses that have DE filters.. I never backwash, instead I break down the filter twice a year and clean everything and then put them back together with fresh DE. Of course both of these pool have VS pumps and my normal filter pressure is only about 3 PSI..

    So, I suggest that after this season is over, you breakdown the filter whether the pressure goes up or not. It will give you an idea if you should backwash or clean more often.

    Couple of questions for you..

    1. What type of pump do you have?

    2. How do you know your chemicals are "perfect"? How are you testing your water?

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    1hp single speed Hayward.

    I'm testing with tft 100.

    FC 5.5
    Cc 0
    Ta 80
    Ch 100
    pH 7.5
    Cya 45
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Do you occasionally "bump" it? My SIL has one that you have to pump the handle occasionally. It does seem odd, to me, that the pressure would go up, then come down on it's own.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Don't think there is bump
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    Do you occasionally "bump" it? My SIL has one that you have to pump the handle occasionally. It does seem odd, to me, that the pressure would go up, then come down on it's own.
    Think the high days the skimmer might be filled with leaves. Hasn't been 16 in a while
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    I suggest that its time to buy a new gauge. Just so you have one that reads zero when the pump is off. TFTestkits.net has them in stock. Do you take your gauge off in the winter, if not I suggest you do to protect it from the cold you get up there.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    I suggest that its time to buy a new gauge. Just so you have one that reads zero when the pump is off. TFTestkits.net has them in stock. Do you take your gauge off in the winter, if not I suggest you do to protect it from the cold you get up there.
    I am not sure if the gauge was removed. First year here and we had the company that did their weekly service replace the liner and open the pool. I will look Into a gauge.
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    You can buy a good gauge for a reasonable price at the link below

    TFTestkits.net

    I replaced a cheap one every season. The glycerin filled ones last many years and actually give an accurate reading
    21,000 gallon inground
    Haywood Sand Filter
    Vinyl Liner

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by ship of fools View Post
    You can buy a good gauge for a reasonable price at the link below

    TFTestkits.net

    I replaced a cheap one every season. The glycerin filled ones last many years and actually give an accurate reading
    Do they just screw in and out? Easy change?
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSwimAlot View Post
    Do they just screw in and out? Easy change?
    Mine did, but I have a sand filter. I don't know squat about a DE filter.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    I believe they are similar. My SIL's DE gauge looked like a similar setup to my sand filter gauge.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    The gauges are cheap enough and look like easy replacement. I will just order a new one. I asked if being 10 psi when off was normal and was told if was fine. But these guys are clowns.
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Chris.

    I have a 15k Gal Gunite pool with a 36 Sq Ft ED Filter. Based on my experiences, I don't pull my DE Filter Grids on a timed basis but my pool may be an anomaly as compared to general forum (& elsewhere) recommendations regarding DE Filter Grid assembly maint.

    I last replaced my DE Grid Assembly w/clean Grids on 09/18/13 .

    I have a Multiport Valve. Here's my Backwash routine:

    - Turn off Pump. Wait ~5 seconds for Handle to relax.
    - Rotate to BW pos. Turn Pump on; run for ~10-15 seconds while watching Sight Glass. At that elapsed time, the glass usually clears up somewhat.
    - Rotate to Rinse pos. Run pump for ~10 seconds.
    - Repeat above cycles 10 times. That's probably more cycles than average pool owners do with DE & Multiport Valves. I'm guessing this is why I haven't seen the need to pull my Grids for an external cleanup as 10 cycles removes most of the old DE in the filter. I also recharge w/new DE using the "80%" rule (charge with ~80% of the filter-specified DE charge).

    My normal 'clean/best case' PSI is about 12-13. This is the PSI reading with a new DE Grid Assembly before charging w/new DE.

    I'm using TFP Glycerin 0-30 PSI Gauge on my DE Filter.

    Here's my DE Filter / Backwash history since switching to TFP (Bleach / CYA ratio) methods. I switched to TFP in June '14. Prior to that, my Backwash duration cycles averaged around every 4-6 weeks, sometimes sooner.

    Since I haven't seen a rise in my 'clean' PSI after each Backwash, I haven't pulled my Grids on a timed basis. I have a complete spare assembled DE Grid Assembly so in the event I need to change the Grids out fast, I have that option available.

    I also installed the TFP Flow Meter in December to provide another data point as it relates to DE BW requirements. I only have 1 BW data point with the Flow Meter. The flow was about 38 before BW & 50 with new DE.

    My best-case Flow (in 'Recirc' position w/Multiport Valve) is about 58 .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    Chris.

    I have a 15k Gal Gunite pool with a 36 Sq Ft ED Filter. Based on my experiences, I don't pull my DE Filter Grids on a timed basis but my pool may be an anomaly as compared to general forum (& elsewhere) recommendations regarding DE Filter Grid assembly maint.

    I last replaced my DE Grid Assembly w/clean Grids on 09/18/13 .

    I have a Multiport Valve. Here's my Backwash routine:

    - Turn off Pump. Wait ~5 seconds for Handle to relax.
    - Rotate to BW pos. Turn Pump on; run for ~10-15 seconds while watching Sight Glass. At that elapsed time, the glass usually clears up somewhat.
    - Rotate to Rinse pos. Run pump for ~10 seconds.
    - Repeat above cycles 10 times. That's probably more cycles than average pool owners do with DE & Multiport Valves. I'm guessing this is why I haven't seen the need to pull my Grids for an external cleanup as 10 cycles removes most of the old DE in the filter. I also recharge w/new DE using the "80%" rule (charge with ~80% of the filter-specified DE charge).

    My normal 'clean/best case' PSI is about 12-13. This is the PSI reading with a new DE Grid Assembly before charging w/new DE.

    I'm using TFP Glycerin 0-30 PSI Gauge on my DE Filter.

    Here's my DE Filter / Backwash history since switching to TFP (Bleach / CYA ratio) methods. I switched to TFP in June '14. Prior to that, my Backwash duration cycles averaged around every 4-6 weeks, sometimes sooner.

    Since I haven't seen a rise in my 'clean' PSI after each Backwash, I haven't pulled my Grids on a timed basis. I have a complete spare assembled DE Grid Assembly so in the event I need to change the Grids out fast, I have that option available.

    I also installed the TFP Flow Meter in December to provide another data point as it relates to DE BW requirements. I only have 1 BW data point with the Flow Meter. The flow was about 38 before BW & 50 with new DE.

    My best-case Flow (in 'Recirc' position w/Multiport Valve) is about 58 .
    Thank you for the detailed response!
    I ordered the TFP Glycerin 0-30 PSI Gauge to replace the gauge that is on there. At some point I might do the Flow meter, but for now I'm just going to replace the gauge. I want to reroute and clean up the piping at some point and might consider it then. I need to learn how to clean the grids, I've never taken it apart.
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?



    You'll like that TFP PSI Gauge. I installed mine in April '15. It's a lot easier to read accurate PSI due to the 1-30 scaling. What I like best about it is the glycerin prevents condensation on the gauge lens. With the cheap pool-store plastic lens gauges, the lens always had condensation on it making it difficult to read the PSI.

    Regarding the DE Grid cleaning procedures, check out this thread at this forum for some tips.

    Here's another link that may help:

    Cleaning a DE Filter

    I always assemble my Grids with the Grid Retainer upside down, at the top of the assembly. It's easier for me to do it that way.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Here at TFP they recommend backwashing when your pressure reaches 25% over the "clean" pressure.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    Here at TFP they recommend backwashing when your pressure reaches 25% over the "clean" pressure.
    I have read the back washing article problem was the gauge wasn't going to all that much which had me concerned it may not be working properly.
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSwimAlot View Post
    I have read the back washing article problem was the gauge wasn't going to all that much which had me concerned it may not be working properly.

    Hopefully the new gauge will help.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Is it common not having to backwash?

    I have the new gauge and it is pretty much the same thing. It goes to zero unlike the old one but it fluctuates from 5-8. When the skimmer basket is cleaned and pool is clear it is typically 5-6. When it is full it may go up to 8.


    This is same behavior of old gauge but it zeroed at 10 and fluctuated between 15-18.

    I haven't backwashed all season and it's getting time to close soon.

    I love the new gauge as I can read it from far away but it seems the old one was accurate just zeroed 10 higher.

    But I wonder if it is likely I could go all season without having to backwash? The pool is crystal clear and I keep it very clean and on top of the chemicals.
    Christopher

    21' x 43' IG 40K Gallon vinyl and concrete pool; liner: 2016; Hayward DE7220 filter; Maytronics M400; TFT-100; Speed-Stir

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