Plugging lines

[run53]

Hard to believe I'm already thinking about closing but it's only 6 weeks away :-(

Anyways, every year I struggle with plugging my lines after blowing them out. Maybe I'm anal, but when i blow then plug them with the threaded plugs, I can always see tiny air bubbles until I turn off the blower (from the pump). Yes, the bubbles disappear once I turn off the blower, and this is where I get anal, but the way I see it, if I get small bubbles with the blower running, it means there is an air path somewhere that could potentially let water into the pipes over the winter.

So I have a new thought this year. I purchased a #7 rubber plug that fits into the return lines beyond the fitting (into the pipe). It fits in the return pipe such that I can also install the threaded plug over it (seems like overkill, I know). Since I think the air bubbles are coming from somewhere in the return fitting/plug connection, the #7 rubber expansion plug will bypass that problem. However, here is my concern.....once I put the rubber plus in, there is no way for me to continue blowing the water out of that return, so that when I install the threaded plug, there will be water between the threaded plug and the rubber plug. So, should I be concerned about the water in between those 2 plugs freezing and compromising my return fittings?

 

[samt]

I guess it depends on your plumbing. On my system If I'm blowing out the returns and then plug each of them , then the air pushes the water out the main drain and then I do and air lock with the valve at the pump. I bet yours is the same.

Sorry just re read your post about water between the 2 plugs. My thought is if it can freeze and expand it may crack that PVC threaded fitting. I don't think I would chance that. I use the rubber plugs on the returns also. But mine go in about half way and when I screw them down good they work great. I know my fittings in the wall have a sleeve that I remove every yr in order to install the rubber plugs. Are you leaving the sleeve in and then putting the rubber plugs inside those? If so that may be your problem.

 

[Catanzaro]

Please do not use threaded plugs. Last year, I purchased them and had the same issue (waste of $$$). Removed them all the closed the pool for a second time. The black rubber plugs work best. I use goggles with my head slightly in the water when plugging the returns.

I would not take anything to chance during the winter. Last year, as an experiment, I took a 4' 3" schedule 40 PVC filled with 95% water and closed off both ends with caps. The bottom cap was sealed with glue so no water leaks out. The piping was on an angle leaning against the deck and left outside all winter. We had somewhat of a harsh cold winter here in NJ. In the spring, I carefully popped off the top with a rubber mallet and nothing was damaged. All the water was still in the pipe as I marked it on the outside. No damage and no cracks anywhere.

This goes to show that unless you have some severe winter weather, with an extended cold spell, the probability of damage unground is quite slim. Assuming that the frost line in your area is a lot worse than NJ.

Enjoy the remainder of the summer and we can all take care of closing the pools when needed.

 

[run53]

Sorry just re read your post about water between the 2 plugs. My thought is if it can freeze and expand it may crack that PVC threaded fitting. I don't think I would chance that. I use the rubber plugs on the returns also. But mine go in about half way and when I screw them down good they work great. I know my fittings in the wall have a sleeve that I remove every yr in order to install the rubber plugs. Are you leaving the sleeve in and then putting the rubber plugs inside those? If so that may be your problem.

Hmmm.....not sure what you mean by a removable sleeve. Maybe that's the trick, but I am not sure I have a removable sleeve.

I've actually never used the rubber plugs before. I was thinking of trying them this year since I've never been able to achieve a seal without bubbles (when pressurized) using the threaded plugs. Last year, while I had the blower, I tried to put a #8 plug in my return but I still had bubbles under pressure of the blower. So that's why this year I thought about trying a #7 and inserting way into the return, so teh fitting doesn't even come into play. I have to believe that will eliminate the bubbles under pressure since there is no fitting/threads to let air through. But then I thought that this method would leave the actual fitting under water and susceptible to freezing.

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Please do not use threaded plugs. Last year, I purchased them and had the same issue (waste of $$$). Removed them all the closed the pool for a second time. The black rubber plugs work best. I use goggles with my head slightly in the water when plugging the returns.

I would not take anything to chance during the winter. Last year, as an experiment, I took a 4' 3" schedule 40 PVC filled with 95% water and closed off both ends with caps. The bottom cap was sealed with glue so no water leaks out. The piping was on an angle leaning against the deck and left outside all winter. We had somewhat of a harsh cold winter here in NJ. In the spring, I carefully popped off the top with a rubber mallet and nothing was damaged. All the water was still in the pipe as I marked it on the outside. No damage and no cracks anywhere.

This goes to show that unless you have some severe winter weather, with an extended cold spell, the probability of damage unground is quite slim. Assuming that the frost line in your area is a lot worse than NJ.

Enjoy the remainder of the summer and we can all take care of closing the pools when needed.

That's certainly an interesting experiment. Kind of like my father in law who lives about 10 minutes from me. He NEVER has blown out his pipes in 28 years of pool ownership. Maybe his pump is below the return and skimmer and the water naturally drains out of the line (not sure though). But he's never had a problem with cracked pipes.

Maybe I'm just being too anal.

 

[run53]

Please do not use threaded plugs. Last year, I purchased them and had the same issue (waste of $$$). Removed them all the closed the pool for a second time. The black rubber plugs work best. I use goggles with my head slightly in the water when plugging the returns.

Yes....I want to try the rubber plugs this year on my threaded returns. However, I have a #8 plug for my threaded return but I still got air bubbles under pressure. I suspect it doesn't seal well against the threads. That's why I was thinking of getting a smaller #7 plug that inserts past the threads and into the pipe itself. I suspect this will work better as it will be expanding against a smooth pipe, rather than the threads. Again, my concern with this would be exposing the threaded fitting to freezing water.

 

[samt]

Hmmm.....not sure what you mean by a removable sleeve. Maybe that's the trick, but I am not sure I have a removable sleeve.

I've actually never used the rubber plugs before. I was thinking of trying them this year since I've never been able to achieve a seal without bubbles (when pressurized) using the threaded plugs. Last year, while I had the blower, I tried to put a #8 plug in my return but I still had bubbles under pressure of the blower. So that's why this year I thought about trying a #7 and inserting way into the return, so teh fitting doesn't even come into play. I have to believe that will eliminate the bubbles under pressure since there is no fitting/threads to let air through. But then I thought that this method would leave the actual fitting under water and susceptible to freezing.

You can also just remove the eyeball, rub your finger inside the pipe and just feel for the two slots. If it's perfectly smooth all around the pipe then the sleeve theory is out the door.

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That's certainly an interesting experiment. Kind of like my father in law who lives about 10 minutes from me. He NEVER has blown out his pipes in 28 years of pool ownership. Maybe his pump is below the return and skimmer and the water naturally drains out of the line (not sure though). But he's never had a problem with cracked pipes.

Maybe I'm just being too anal.

When you remove the eyeball you should have 3 pieces. If you only have 2 that means the sleeve is still in there and it needs to be removed before the rubber plugs can make a tight seal. After you remove the eyeball, feel inside the pipe, there are two slots that are made for a plastic key that AIDS in unscrewing the sleeve. When people can't get a good seal, usually it's because air is escaping from those two slots. Also I found that a standard narrow putty knife works well.

Your rubber plugs should only go in half way, then when you tighten them down they seal the hole completely.

I think you have the wrong plugs and your sleeve is still in the wall face. Google pool eyeball and it may show you what I'm talking about.

 

[run53]

When you remove the eyeball you should have 3 pieces. If you only have 2 that means the sleeve is still in there and it needs to be removed before the rubber plugs can make a tight seal. After you remove the eyeball, feel inside the pipe, there are two slots that are made for a plastic key that AIDS in unscrewing the sleeve. When people can't get a good seal, usually it's because air is escaping from those two slots. Also I found that a standard narrow putty knife works well.

Your rubber plugs should only go in half way, then when you tighten them down they seal the hole completely.

I think you have the wrong plugs and your sleeve is still in the wall face. Google pool eyeball and it may show you what I'm talking about.

when I take the eyeball out, I have a threaded part, the eyeball and the plate the eyeball rotates in. I don't see anything else in the return fitting.

 

[run53]

So, you think the correct size rubber plugs will seal properly over threaded return fittings? Wouldn't it need to be past the threads (smooth pipe) to make a good seal?

 

[samt]

when I take the eyeball out, I have a threaded part, the eyeball and the plate the eyeball rotates in. I don't see anything else in the return fitting.

Ok, then my theory was wrong. It sounds like you do have the 3 pieces. Sometimes that piece that holds the eyeball gets stuck when people remove them and they only remove the eyeball and faceplate. I can see now that it's not what's happening to you. Sorry. I'm surprised those rubber plugs don't work for you.

I know when I put mine in I really have to tighten down so hard my fingers hurt. I also put plumbers grease on them to really wedge them in the hole before I tighten them down.

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So, you think the correct size rubber plugs will seal properly over threaded return fittings? Wouldn't it need to be past the threads (smooth pipe) to make a good seal?

That's the way there ment to go in. My plugs only go in half way and then I tighten them down.

I see your point about the threads, and I agree, I just never had a problem with my threads like that. I think the threads help keep the plug in and the rubber just molds over the threads.

 

[run53]

Ok, then my theory was wrong. It sounds like you do have the 3 pieces. Sometimes that piece that holds the eyeball gets stuck when people remove them and they only remove the eyeball and faceplate. I can see now that it's not what's happening to you. Sorry. I'm surprised those rubber plugs don't work for you.

I know when I put mine in I really have to tighten down so hard my fingers hurt. I also put plumbers grease on them to really wedge them in the hole before I tighten them down.

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I see your point about the threads, and I agree, I just never had a problem with my threads like that. I think the threads help keep the plug in and the rubber just molds over the threads.

yeah.....I've never been able to get a good seal with either threaded or rubber. Sounds like many here have trouble with threaded ones as I do. And for the rubber ones, I guess it's possible I'm using the wrong size rubber plug.

This has been my one and only issue with my pool that continues to cause stress every year I close. I never feel good about seeing those tiny air bubbles under pressure where it seems that many on this forum have figured this out. Fortunately, I have not had a problem in 10 years yet but maybe I'm just getting lucky (although i do put some anti-freeze in for insurance each year, but only a few gallons for all my lines).

I really wish I could resolve this

 

[Northern cannonball]

Thread Revival!
Which rubber plug size do i need for the 2" pipe leading to my SWG?

 

[Catanzaro]

2' Should be a # 11 plug, maybe a # 12 plug. I can check over the next several days as I have a 2" pipe in the basement. Do you have threads in the piping, or is it flush?

 

[Newdude]

https://www.amazon.com/Winterizing-Plug-Size-11-HWP211/dp/B002XKDK66/ref=asc_df_B002XKDK66/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167163693584&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15638476819423223025&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1022762&hvtargid=pla-307156846976&psc=1

I found several cheaper at other sellers, but probably wouldn’t risk an unknown seller myself.

I had 7 spots to plug and they were #10 or # 11 depending on if the 2 inch was inside or outside diameter. It was a 4/3 split. I forget which one I had more of.

 

[Northern cannonball]

2' Should be a # 11 plug, maybe a # 12 plug. I can check over the next several days as I have a 2" pipe in the basement. Do you have threads in the piping, or is it flush?

I'd be plugging the pipes once i remove the SWG for the season (which i am still on the fence about ) I believe Texas Splash said the SWG is connected via unions, but i am unsure if that means the pip is threaded or not.
SWG photo

 

[Newdude]

but i am unsure if that means the pip is threaded or not.

The pipe has the Union nut and it screws on to the threaded SWG. When you are taking it off, don’t forget to do each side accordingly. One lefty loosey is righty righty on the other side.

 

[Northern cannonball]

The pipe has the Union nut and it screws on to the threaded SWG. When you are taking it off, don’t forget to do each side accordingly. One lefty loosey is righty righty on the other side.

ahh ok thanks, so can i stick a rubber plug into the union nut on the pipe?

 

[Newdude]

Yup. The skinny end of the plug goes in until it fits and then you tighten the wingnut to compress it making a good seal. Word of caution. I opened every year never giving the step order a second thought. On year 5(?) I inadvertently opened the rubber plugs at the pad first instead of removing the gizzmos and threaded return plugs. The negative pressure sucked the rubber plug in the pipe and past a 90 degree bend in a flash. The next half hour was spent with equal amounts of prayers and very loud curses trying to suck it back out with a shop vac. It worked but for a while there I thought I was cutting pipe to retrieve it.

So make sure to relieve any vacuum pressure at the plugs that simply cannot get sucked in, like the gizzmos.

 

[Northern cannonball]

Yup. The skinny end of the plug goes in until it fits and then you tighten the wingnut to compress it making a good seal. Word of caution. I opened every year never giving the step order a second thought. On year 5(?) I inadvertently opened the rubber plugs at the pad first instead of removing the gizzmos and threaded return plugs. The negative pressure sucked the rubber plug in the pipe and past a 90 degree bend in a flash. The next half hour was spent with equal amounts of prayers and very loud curses trying to suck it back out with a shop vac. It worked but for a while there I thought I was cutting pipe to retrieve it.

So make sure to relieve any vacuum pressure at the plugs that simply cannot get sucked in, like the gizzmos.

Great info! much appreciated

 

[MostlyCanuck]

https://www.amazon.com/Winterizing-Plug-Size-11-HWP211/dp/B002XKDK66/ref=asc_df_B002XKDK66/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167163693584&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15638476819423223025&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1022762&hvtargid=pla-307156846976&psc=1

I found several cheaper at other sellers, but probably wouldn’t risk an unknown seller myself.

I had 7 spots to plug and they were #10 or # 11 depending on if the 2 inch was inside or outside diameter. It was a 4/3 split. I forget which one I had more of.

@Northern cannonball - given where you are, check out Toronto Pool Supplies. They have lots of rubber plugs in all sizes on sale right now. That way you can pick up a couple different sizes and fit-test yourself what jams in best. I found having #10-12s on hand to try is helpful to get a really good fit. (I have no affiliation with the store, but found they have solid inventory right now and decent pricing compared to amazon.ca)

 

[Northern cannonball]

@Northern cannonball - given where you are, check out Toronto Pool Supplies. They have lots of rubber plugs in all sizes on sale right now. That way you can pick up a couple different sizes and fit-test yourself what jams in best. I found having #10-12s on hand to try is helpful to get a really good fit. (I have no affiliation with the store, but found they have solid inventory right now and decent pricing compared to amazon.ca)

Will check it out! Thanks