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Thread: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

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    ronwell's Avatar
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    Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    What is the optimal TA range for a liquid chlorinated vinyl liner pool? I see conflicting advice. I'm adjusting TA in prep for adding borates via boric acid.

    So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How says TA should be 70-80 ppm.

    Pool School - Recommended Levels (and pool math) says 50-90+

    Borates - Why and How says bring to low end of range for my pool which would be 50ppm.

    I'm currently at 70ppm (down from 150ppm in May).

    Do I really need to go down to 50ppm? If so, then why? I haven't had any trouble lowering TA, it's just time consuming. I've read that adding borates will reduce upward pressure on Ph allowing a lower than normal TA. Is that all there is to it?

    Experts please weigh in. Thanks!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    TA and PH work hand in hand. We do suggest waiting for a few months before adding borates so you can learn your pool needs and wants better.

    The best level for TA is what YOUR pool wants. It will "tell" you where it likes the TA by having a fairly stable PH. We suggest a range for that reason. There is no set number for all pools.

    Remember that a waterfall or such will push your PH up. As will a very active swim session with lots of friends.

    What you will be looking for is your PH staying level for a couple/few days in a row. No BIG jumps.

    If you put your pool info in your signature it would be helpful for us in the future.

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    You want your pH to be pretty stable, not rising quickly. Lowering PH with acid will also lower TA. The closer your pool gets to equilibrium the less PH will rise and the less acid you will need to add. This usually occurs with TA between 50 and 70 ppm.
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    I have been caring for the pool since early May, so a few months. Most of that time I've had the TA around 80-90. During that time I've never had any major issues with Ph stability and certainly no rises in Ph. MY Ph tends to creep down slowly, which I fix by aerating because it's free to do and I'm patient.

    What can cause Ph to creep down? Should I raise my TA back up to the point where I observed the most static Ph levels? (I have kept good records).

    I will update my signature with my pool info.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    Yes, raise TA to slow pH going down. Common causes of lowering PH is low PH fill water (rare) and chlorinating with trichlor or dichlor. And some pools just do.

    More here on what to put in your sig and how to do it, Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    Okay, but specifically for borates: Should my TA be lower than it would be otherwise before adding borates?
    22k Gal. IG Vinyl - Hayward SP1607Z1M 1 HP Pump - Hayward S220T Sand Filter. - TF 100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    No, there is no specific number target for adding borates. Stable PH is the goal before adding borates. The reason the process emphasizes lower TA is because that is normally what is required for more stable (not rising) pH. You want your PH to be stable before adding borates, whatever TA delivers that is the correct number to aim for before adding borates.
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    @pooldv Thanks. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

    Maybe the guides on this site for adding borates should be updated to emphasize that point. Concerning TA adjustment (or any other adjustment) the why is more important than the how.
    22k Gal. IG Vinyl - Hayward SP1607Z1M 1 HP Pump - Hayward S220T Sand Filter. - TF 100 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    I don't think borates will do much for you in terms of pH stability because your pH has a tendency to fall. Since it sounds like you can stabilize your pH simply by raising TA and because you do not use an SWG, I see no point for you to add borates.

    Why do you want to add them?
    Matt
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    I have been on the fence about adding them. I liked the pros. The cons don't bother me: I don't have pets; 1 time cost of about $80 is no consequence to me.

    But the deciding factor was that in spite of being zealous about my water's chemistry, I had a small algae bloom recently. One day I had quite a bit of green on the floor and walls of the pool. I have no idea why. I test daily. My FC doesn't ever fall below minimum of range. So, I read that borates can help to keep algae at bay and the cost is negligible, so I thought I'd give it a try.

    My 55lb bucket arrived today. I added some soda ash to get my TA up to where I've noticed the most Ph stability (80-90 ppm). After a few days I plan to bring borates to about 50ppm.
    22k Gal. IG Vinyl - Hayward SP1607Z1M 1 HP Pump - Hayward S220T Sand Filter. - TF 100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    Ron, Do you brush your pool during the week or on the weekend?

    I had a slight algae bloom on my walls when my hubby thought the pool looked fine so he did not brush the walls. When I rubbed my hands on the wall a slight, green cloud came off. Hubby jumped right in and brushed the walls and has done it at least 2 times a week since.

    The pool needs to be brushed to help keep the surfaces clear of algae.



    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    Great post, Kim. We can do ALL the right things but, particularly in August. being around the pool to inspect it visually is often very revealing.

    Algae just want to find a happy home in the Summer!!
    Dave S.
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    I brush at least once per week and swim more often than that.
    22k Gal. IG Vinyl - Hayward SP1607Z1M 1 HP Pump - Hayward S220T Sand Filter. - TF 100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Optimal TA for Bleach/Vinyl before adding borates

    Lights? Ladders? Clean all around the return and skimmer plate/door? Not sure but it is worth a try.

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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