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Thread: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (waste)?

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    Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (waste)?

    Naturally after a big rain, I am having to turn the pump to Waste and suck excess water from behind the liner because the ground stays so wet. But just curious, how often are others having to do this? I am finding more often than not I can see a few wrinkles or buckling up a tad in some spots around the return jets so I am always having to suck water from behind it. I would say at least once a week I have to do this and I am wondering if this is normal?
    22K gal, vinyl liner pool (rectangle 16x32), Hayward SwimPure 40k SWG/T-Cell-15, Polaris 280 pool cleaner. K-2006 test kit.
    In South Louisiana - pool gets full sun all day long, and stays open and maintained year round :)

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    I have never had to do this, and in fact I am not sure how you would suck out water from behind the liner.
    IG W/Vinyl Liner Oval 18x40, 21K gal, Oval 3'-8'
    Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump, Sand Filter

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    If you are talking about your main pool pump, it cannot pull water from behind your liner......that has to be done from outside of the pool liner.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    I've had problems if we have an unusual amount of rain. Hasn't happened in the last few years. Keeping a little more water in the pool will help. In your case I'd consider digging a hole near the pool & use a sump pump to lower the ground water level around the pool.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Its a well point. We need this info in pool school or a sticky, but here is a good explanation
    https://everclearbackyards.wordpress...h-groundwater/
    15x54 swim & play vinyl metal wall AG
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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    I have not had that problem as of yet.
    19328 Gallon Above-Ground Pool. Clean&Clear Pentair Cartridge Filter. Opti-flo 2 Stage 1.5hp Pump. Dolphin Nautilus Plus "Flipper" Robot. Established April 2016. Taylor K-2006. Chlorine Based. 340gallon Marquis Spa. Bromine based. Established 2007.

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    I have never had to do this in the 9 years that I have had my pool, even when we get torrential downpours. But there isn't all that much space for the water to enter the ground adjacent to my pool.
    Vinyl 18'x36' in-ground 100,000 L, Jandy Aquapure 1400 SWCG, Jandy Lite2 heater, StaRite System3 filter, Evac tube solar heating panels

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Never
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Wow, well that is seriously concerning. I am not sure the technical terms of the equipment...but I have the pump where you can set it to Filter/Backwash/Rinse/Waste and you can set it to Waste then turn the other pump off so that it sucks from behind the liner (my husband says its a 3 way valve that either sucks from the bottom or the skimmer, or turned off and nothing gets to the pump). I had a suspicion my original liner was not installed properly or maybe has a tiny undetectable leak somewhere. Thanks everyone, I definitely need to do some more investigation.
    22K gal, vinyl liner pool (rectangle 16x32), Hayward SwimPure 40k SWG/T-Cell-15, Polaris 280 pool cleaner. K-2006 test kit.
    In South Louisiana - pool gets full sun all day long, and stays open and maintained year round :)

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Quote Originally Posted by rdbrya1 View Post
    Wow, well that is seriously concerning. I am not sure the technical terms of the equipment...but I have the pump where you can set it to Filter/Backwash/Rinse/Waste and you can set it to Waste then turn the other pump off so that it sucks from behind the liner (my husband says its a 3 way valve that either sucks from the bottom or the skimmer, or turned off and nothing gets to the pump). I had a suspicion my original liner was not installed properly or maybe has a tiny undetectable leak somewhere. Thanks everyone, I definitely need to do some more investigation.
    Local conditions make a huge difference. If the water table in the ground is above the bottom of the pool, there will be water outside the liner. The fact that you have a setup for removing the water tells you that your water table is high.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Quote Originally Posted by rdbrya1 View Post
    Wow, well that is seriously concerning. I am not sure the technical terms of the equipment...but I have the pump where you can set it to Filter/Backwash/Rinse/Waste and you can set it to Waste then turn the other pump off so that it sucks from behind the liner (my husband says its a 3 way valve that either sucks from the bottom or the skimmer, or turned off and nothing gets to the pump). I had a suspicion my original liner was not installed properly or maybe has a tiny undetectable leak somewhere. Thanks everyone, I definitely need to do some more investigation.
    Trying to say this in a nice way, but that is not how the valve works. A very quick explanation would be this:

    100% of the time the pump will suck in water from the pool (inside the pool) and never can suck in water from behind the liner.

    Water will come into your pump from the bottom (main drain) or the skimmer.

    The main drain only draws from inside the liner.

    In filter, water is drawn into the pump, pushed through the filter, and then back into the pool. Doing this will have effect on the amount of water in your pool. This is the normal operation of a pool pump/filter.

    In backwash, water is drawn into the pump, pushed backwards through the filter, and then goes out to waste (outside of the pool to a drain or creek, or your yard). Doing this decreases the volume of water in your pool. Typically done if your filter has gotten too dirty and your pressure has risen too much.

    In Rinse, water is drawn into the pump, bypasses the filter, just passes through the pipes at the filter, and then goes out to waste (outside of the pool to a drain or creek, or your yard). Doing this decreases the volume of water in your pool. This should be done for 30 seconds or so after backwashing your pool to make sure teh debris from your filter does not go back into you pool.

    In Waste, water is drawn into the pump, bypasses everything and goes straight to waste. Doing this decreases the volume of water in your pool. Typically done if your pool water level is to high and you need to lower the level.

    So there is no way to use the pump to get water from behind the liner. If there is water behind your liner that you can detect, that is not normal and you sadly have a problem.

    Now when it rains a lot, unless your pool has an overflow valve, it is normal that people have to use the pump to lower the water level.

    Normal water level for a pool is the midway height line of your skimmer box. The water level should never be allowed to go under teh skimmer (very low) and never be allows to completely put the skimmer underwater (very high)
    IG W/Vinyl Liner Oval 18x40, 21K gal, Oval 3'-8'
    Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump, Sand Filter

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Quote Originally Posted by Yev View Post
    ... and never be allows to completely put the skimmer underwater (very high)
    Why not? I know this means that you won't get any skimming of debris but will it affect the performance of the filter/pump? I had this happen a couple of weeks ago and I left it like this in a "too high" state and just let the water evaporate down to the proper level. Why pump water out and then have to put water in a few days later, assuming that you expect more evaporation than rain which has certainly been the case in Toronto this summer.
    Vinyl 18'x36' in-ground 100,000 L, Jandy Aquapure 1400 SWCG, Jandy Lite2 heater, StaRite System3 filter, Evac tube solar heating panels

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    It is making a little more sense now. I must be located in an area with a high water table with poor drainage like mentioned to even have the ability to do this in the first place. And no worries Yev, that wasn't mean at all I know I don't have the technical lingo correct. It looks like a separate submersible pump to pump out the water behind the liner. I am still trying to get the terminology right for the equipment. Normally I rely on my husband for that part lol...I manage the chemistry and he usually deals with the equipment . I think this thread has been very useful to me and I appreciate EVERY reply!
    22K gal, vinyl liner pool (rectangle 16x32), Hayward SwimPure 40k SWG/T-Cell-15, Polaris 280 pool cleaner. K-2006 test kit.
    In South Louisiana - pool gets full sun all day long, and stays open and maintained year round :)

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    We have a well point that we drain after heavy rains using a sump pump and hose (unrelated to the pool equipment). There is drain tile around the pool that drains into the pit. We've never had any issues with the liner floating, but our neighbor who doesn't have the pit has a floating liner each spring when they go to open the pool. There is always water in the pit, but I've forgotten to drain it a few times and it doesn't impact the pool liner at all...yet.
    11k vinyl in ground pool with SWG, DE filter, gas heater & auto cover.

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    I now def lean towards it being a leak in the liner. I will be getting it fixed!! Thanks all!
    22K gal, vinyl liner pool (rectangle 16x32), Hayward SwimPure 40k SWG/T-Cell-15, Polaris 280 pool cleaner. K-2006 test kit.
    In South Louisiana - pool gets full sun all day long, and stays open and maintained year round :)

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Quote Originally Posted by Yev View Post
    In Rinse, water is drawn into the pump, bypasses the filter, just passes through the pipes at the filter, and then goes out to waste (outside of the pool to a drain or creek, or your yard). Doing this decreases the volume of water in your pool. This should be done for 30 seconds or so after backwashing your pool to make sure teh debris from your filter does not go back into you pool.
    Not to be "that guy", but I'm pretty sure in Rinse mode, the water still flows through the filter and does not bypass it. This is an especially important distinction for sand filters as this compression of the sand bed after backwashing helps re-settle the bed before placing it back into service.
    13,500 gallon AG pool, vinyl liner, Sparco SF-40 Sand Filter, Hayward Power-Flo LX pump (1.0 HP, 60 gpm), filled from city water

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Yea, Kev. For others, here is a great explanation of how sand filters work:
    Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    If it rains enough so that the water level in the pool gets above the liner bead, it's entirely possible that water can seep in from "over the top" of the bead.

    If you have a leak, I would suspect that this would happen at other times other than when it rains.



    Quote Originally Posted by rdbrya1 View Post
    I now def lean towards it being a leak in the liner. I will be getting it fixed!! Thanks all!
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    If it rains enough so that the water level in the pool gets above the liner bead, it's entirely possible that water can seep in from "over the top" of the bead.
    This phenomenon has happened to me. People say I am crazy, but I know my pool.

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    Re: Vinyl Liner Owners: how often are you having to suck water from behind liner (was

    Quote Originally Posted by wayner View Post
    Why not? I know this means that you won't get any skimming of debris but will it affect the performance of the filter/pump? I had this happen a couple of weeks ago and I left it like this in a "too high" state and just let the water evaporate down to the proper level. Why pump water out and then have to put water in a few days later, assuming that you expect more evaporation than rain which has certainly been the case in Toronto this summer.
    This is a bit off topic from the OP original question, btu since she acknowledged that she is learning about the hardware, it is still helpful I think as a side discussion without a separate thread need, so here goes.

    Perhaps not a great reason, but a few small reasons.

    1.) If you get more rain the water will raise more, adn just above the skimmer top is going to be the liner bead, and you really shouldn't get the water there if avoidable, as now you are inviting water behind the liner. Not the end of the world, but not ideal

    2.) Withotu skimming, you are swimming in a pool with more floaters (leaves, bugs, pollen) and from a personal perspective I don't like swimming in a dirty pool if avoidable.

    3.) Debris left in teh pool hurts water chemistry, and although laziness is the answer, it is much easier to dump a skimmer basket than to skim the pool. My pools skimmers are very effective, so I dont have to skim too much, but the skimmers quickly fill.

    4.) Again laziness, but if you dont stay on top of skimming, then the leaves sink, adn then it you need to drag out the vacuum. If you dont have a robot or auto cleaner, now this is a bigger chore.

    5.) From a clean perspective, if you dont regularly have your pool that high, then when the water raises that high, you will have water on areas that arent normally wet. This will bring more dirt into the pool and require more chemicals to clean. Now perhaps if you are anal like me you take a sponge and bucket and wipe down the sides above the water once a week while you are floating in teh pool, but if not you will just get more dirt in teh pool.
    IG W/Vinyl Liner Oval 18x40, 21K gal, Oval 3'-8'
    Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump, Sand Filter

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